The American Politics Thread!

[bswanson]

39 minutes ago, Elliott said:

L O L

 

Yes, people were so receptive of peaceful protests. Like the one Colin Kapernick did for example.

he has the right to do that and its a shame no nfl team would take him because of it, and yes cops do need to be held accoutble. a handcuffed person cannot harm you, at the same time burning down buildings is only going to hurt things too. there was a POC in MN who had their busniess burned down. but yeah you all have a point too, maybe if more cops would actrully be held accountalbe for killing unarmed poc then it wouldnt get this bad. there have been many cases like this. someone in handcuffs should not die, they are defenselss.  also when they are cooropeating with their hands up unarmed. there needs to be a change yes. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by bswanson

[Elliott]

9 minutes ago, bswanson said:

he has the right to do that, but I mean destorying buildings and looting isnt going to solve anything either 

Most of the looting started after their peaceful protests were met with police force. There have also been a plethora videos showing it isn’t the protestors. There also also hundreds of photos of whites people causing more damage celebrating/disagreeing with sports results, but I don’t recall ever seeing you posting about it?

 

But by all means, please keep telling black people what is and isn’t an acceptable form of protest.

 

And just to add. Looting and destroying buildings, as you call it, does solve things. The gay rights movement made a sh*tton of progress after the Stonewall Riots started as the result of peaceful protests being met with the same regard the last few days of protesting has gone.

 

If you’re more upset about the protests rather than why they’re protesting, then you’re part of the problem.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Elliott

[bswanson]

5 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Most of the looting started after their peaceful protests were met with police force. There have also been a plethora videos showing it isn’t the protestors. There also also hundreds of photos of whites people causing more damage celebrating/disagreeing with sports results, but I don’t recall ever seeing you posting about it?

 

But by all means, please keep telling black people what is and isn’t an acceptable form of protest.

well thats not right either with sports and stuff. i agree. and yeah if they are protesting peacefully like most were the cops shouldnt be using rubber bullets or pepper spary and no excuse for driving in the crowds.  I also didnt mean to tell them how to protest. I know the protesers are seperate from the looters and the rioters, should have been more clear. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by bswanson

[ButterflyEffect]

Nice of the police to let the white folks go but assault the two black folks behind them. Also pretty sure this is a crime. 

Welcome to Americastan.

[ATX29]

2 hours ago, ButterflyEffect said:

I don't cast all police officers with the same brush. But the past few days have shown us how many scum pigs there really are in the force. For those officers who are out there, overstepping boundaries and inciting more violence, this is like Christmas morning for them. Stuff they've always wanted to do but have never had the chance.

Pretty good compilation of police/national guard overstepping their boundaries (with video evidence). So you can only imagine how much more of this is going on with no cameras present.

https://reddit.com/r/news/comments/gu10qz/law_enforcement_fires_paint_projectile_at/fsg17l5/

 

Everything you just said applies to the looters and rioters as well.  It's like Christmas morning for them too.

[ButterflyEffect]

I don't condone the actions of the people who have taken advantage of this situation to loot and pillage. I do hold the policing agencies to a high standard as their job is to police and protect. Instead I see them taking their anger out on those who don't deserve it. Journalists and people on their front steps or driving home in their cars should not be their targets. Instead it looks like they're living out their weird violent fantasies. And what can the victims do? If an officer rips you from your car and hits you with a taser what are you to do? If you try and defend yourself you'll end up with a bullet in the head.

[ATX29]

2 hours ago, totes4totes said:

Yes. It has been shown time and time and time again that police don’t hold each other accountable. There are no good police because they all unrepentantly let the bad ones commit violence.

 

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous logic.  The cop in Minnesota is a cold blooded killer.  I don't see how anyone who watched that video could come to any other conclusion.  But I'm supposed to hold the honest, hard working, civil servants of my local PD accountable for the actions of a  man 2000 miles away whom they've never met?  You can't be serious.

Is it ok for me to hold you personally responsible for the protesters (whose camp you are obviously in) who are rioting, looting, dragging innocent people out of their cars, and beating shop owners to near death simply because you are not out there actively trying to stop them?  Or have I misunderstood and you don't think any of those things are wrong?

 

Not all black people are criminals.

Not all white people are racists.

Not all all cops are bad.

 

Ignorance comes in all colors and forms.

[bswanson]

7 minutes ago, ButterflyEffect said:

I don't condone the actions of the people who have taken advantage of this situation to loot and pillage. I do hold the policing agencies to a high standard as their job is to police and protect. Instead I see them taking their anger out on those who don't deserve it. Journalists and people on their front steps or driving home in their cars should not be their targets. Instead it looks like they're living out their weird violent fantasies. And what can the victims do? If an officer rips you from your car and hits you with a taser what are you to do? If you try and defend yourself you'll end up with a bullet in the head.

agree. Police should be held to a higer standard. there are good ones like the cop in Flint who joined the protesters. 

[totes4totes]

3 hours ago, totes4totes said:

Yes. It has been shown time and time and time again that police don’t hold each other accountable. There are no good police because they all let the bad ones commit violence.

To quote myself to add to further explain my stance for those who are interested (I don't give a freak for those who want to rebut or have a polite debate or whatever. I'm going to disregard your comment and move on if you haven't noticed already). To understand why the ACAB or "All Cops Are Bad" has been added to the lexicon lately in addition to the few points above you have to understand a few other things.

 

1. Racism is an institution in the United States. Racism is woven into this country's DNA from the very inception of this country. (If you are interested you can read Nicole Hannah Jones's 1619 Project in the New York Times). (And also note, this is solely focused on racism, but other aspects like classism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia are also institutional in this country).

2. Because of institutionalized racism we see racism woven into, among other things, our government, our education system, our economy, and our laws. This means that from a young age every child in America is unconsciously learning and developing racial biases.

3 (An aside). This means we are all racist and we should work every day to confront our biases and work actively to be anti-racist. This means educating ourselves (I can post some resources if you'd like), talking to our family and friends, calling our elected politicians, etc.

4 (Getting back to the point). We all know that the 13th Amendment, adopted in 1865, abolished slavery. However, the 13th Amendment still permits slavery as a punishment for a crime which means that prisons are free to exploit labor of those incarcerated. (Ava DuVernay's 13th is an easy primer on this and I believe it is on Netflix). As we know the US Prison is notoriously bad. Despite having 5% of the world's population, the United States houses 20-25% of the world's prison population. Black Americans are incarcerated at 5x the rate of white Americans. Black and Latinx Americans make up about a 1/3 of the overall population of the United States but over half of the US prison population.

 

Now with those points established we form the basis for why all cops are bad.

 

The laws in the United States disproportionately target persons of color and poor people. Those categories are obviously not mutually exclusive as those who are living in poverty are also disproportionately POC. The job of the police is to enforce these laws blindly. Modern policing forces cops to abandon moral agency to enforce laws that at their core are racist and classist. If they do not do this they risk their jobs (and their comfortable middle class salary). Because cops blindly enforce racist laws to an absurd degree we end up as the prison state that the United States is currently in. Think about all the videos you've seen of police violence from this past weekend, how many of those officers pepper spraying protestors with their arms raised, kicking protestors, shoving protestors, tazing protestors, were restrained or chastised by the officers standing next to them. Those officers know the names of the cops who tried to run over protestors in New York City with their cars or in Chicago with their horses. If there are good cops they need to start identifying the bad cops, make their names known, distance themselves from them and openly and publicly condemn their actions. Police chiefs need to ensure that those cops are being punished. They need to work now and speak up for demilitarization and defunding your forces. If the job is to protect and serve then work now to make the reforms that make your job unnecessary happen.

 

And as a final reminder, police violence and escalation is a choice. At the protests against COVID (lol protesting a virus) majority white protestors, a good number of whom were openly armed, the police did not tear gas the crowds, they didn't mace the protestors, or shoot them with rubber bullets. They exercised restraint showing that when they want to they are absolutely capable. The job of the police is to deescalate situations safely. What part of anything they have been doing this past week tracks with that.

 

TL;DR: All cops are bad because they willingly participate to blindly enforce a racist system

 

[totes4totes]

As you watch the riots tonight, remember all this is happening because the cops were not willing to arrest four of their own for murdering a black man.

[ATX29]

2 hours ago, totes4totes said:

To quote myself to add to further explain my stance for those who are interested (I don't give a freak for those who want to rebut or have a polite debate or whatever. I'm going to disregard your comment and move on if you haven't noticed already). To understand why the ACAB or "All Cops Are Bad" has been added to the lexicon lately in addition to the few points above you have to understand a few other things.

 

1. Racism is an institution in the United States. Racism is woven into this country's DNA from the very inception of this country. (If you are interested you can read Nicole Hannah Jones's 1619 Project in the New York Times). (And also note, this is solely focused on racism, but other aspects like classism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia are also institutional in this country).

2. Because of institutionalized racism we see racism woven into, among other things, our government, our education system, our economy, and our laws. This means that from a young age every child in America is unconsciously learning and developing racial biases.

3 (An aside). This means we are all racist and we should work every day to confront our biases and work actively to be anti-racist. This means educating ourselves (I can post some resources if you'd like), talking to our family and friends, calling our elected politicians, etc.

4 (Getting back to the point). We all know that the 13th Amendment, adopted in 1865, abolished slavery. However, the 13th Amendment still permits slavery as a punishment for a crime which means that prisons are free to exploit labor of those incarcerated. (Ava DuVernay's 13th is an easy primer on this and I believe it is on Netflix). As we know the US Prison is notoriously bad. Despite having 5% of the world's population, the United States houses 20-25% of the world's prison population. Black Americans are incarcerated at 5x the rate of white Americans. Black and Latinx Americans make up about a 1/3 of the overall population of the United States but over half of the US prison population.

 

Now with those points established we form the basis for why all cops are bad.

 

The laws in the United States disproportionately target persons of color and poor people. Those categories are obviously not mutually exclusive as those who are living in poverty are also disproportionately POC. The job of the police is to enforce these laws blindly. Modern policing forces cops to abandon moral agency to enforce laws that at their core are racist and classist. If they do not do this they risk their jobs (and their comfortable middle class salary). Because cops blindly enforce racist laws to an absurd degree we end up as the prison state that the United States is currently in. Think about all the videos you've seen of police violence from this past weekend, how many of those officers pepper spraying protestors with their arms raised, kicking protestors, shoving protestors, tazing protestors, were restrained or chastised by the officers standing next to them. Those officers know the names of the cops who tried to run over protestors in New York City with their cars or in Chicago with their horses. If there are good cops they need to start identifying the bad cops, make their names known, distance themselves from them and openly and publicly condemn their actions. Police chiefs need to ensure that those cops are being punished. They need to work now and speak up for demilitarization and defunding your forces. If the job is to protect and serve then work now to make the reforms that make your job unnecessary happen.

 

And as a final reminder, police violence and escalation is a choice. At the protests against COVID (lol protesting a virus) majority white protestors, a good number of whom were openly armed, the police did not tear gas the crowds, they didn't mace the protestors, or shoot them with rubber bullets. They exercised restraint showing that when they want to they are absolutely capable. The job of the police is to deescalate situations safely. What part of anything they have been doing this past week tracks with that.

 

TL;DR: All cops are bad because they willingly participate to blindly enforce a racist system

 

 

You don't give a freak for those who want to have a friendly debate ON. A. MESSAGE. BOARD?

 

Tells me all I need to know.

 

Have fun with your ANTIFA leftist

[bswanson]

 the other  cops could have stopped him and maybe George Floyd would be alive today. Not sure how it works but could they be charged as an accessory? I don't agree though with all cops are bad. Many are marching with protesters like

 In flint mi. Cops across the country condemned the cop saying this is not us we don't stand for this. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by bswanson

[TeamAudra]

2 hours ago, ATX29 said:

 

You don't give a freak for those who want to have a friendly debate ON. A. MESSAGE. BOARD?

 

Tells me all I need to know.

 

Have fun with your ANTIFA leftist

Yeah, I’m afraid it’s a lost cause. I suspect less than 20% of Americans sympathize with Antifa and similar groups. The number would be even smaller if their neighborhoods were destroyed...perhaps close to zero. 
 

 

 

[TeamAudra]

This is exactly what I was talking about. A few days ago, he was cheering on the burning of a nearly completed low income housing complex. He didn’t like it so much when it arrived at his gated community. F*ck you, Chris. 
 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by TeamAudra

[ATX29]

6 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

Yeah, I’m afraid it’s a lost cause. I suspect less than 20% of Americans sympathize with Antifa and similar groups. The number would be even smaller if their neighborhoods were destroyed...perhaps close to zero. 
 

 

 

 

I suspect you are right about all of that.  The height of hipocracy!

 

Speaking of which...I wonder who the "all cops are bad" folks would call if the looting showed up at their front door?

[bswanson]

5 minutes ago, ATX29 said:

 

I suspect you are right about all of that.  The height of hipocracy!

 

Speaking of which...I wonder who the "all cops are bad" folks would call if the looting showed up at their front door?

yeah I mean just like everything there are bad cops and good cops. dont pait them with a broad brush. many of the cops have said they have condoned the action of this cop and the ones with him that did nothing. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Elliott said:

L O L

 

Yes, people were so receptive of peaceful protests. Like the one Colin Kapernick did for example.

That's very important to remember and I understand very well that our president called him and other players that did the same "sons of bitches," which was extremely unhelpful. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

This is exactly what I was talking about. A few days ago, he was cheering on the burning of a nearly completed low income housing complex. He didn’t like it so much when it arrived at his gated community. F*ck you, Chris. 
 

 

 

In all honesty, it doesn't seem like a lot of the folks that came into these cities and caused major destruction even reside within the community. I sincerely hope they find some of them through camera footage. 

[TeamAudra]

37 minutes ago, Drew said:

In all honesty, it doesn't seem like a lot of the folks that came into these cities and caused major destruction even reside within the community. I sincerely hope they find some of them through camera footage. 

That’s what I’ve been saying for several days. Authorities know exactly who they are, where they live, who they associate with, etc. 

[ButterflyEffect]

Regarding some of the arrests made...

 

Quote

Officials blame outsiders for violence in Minnesota but contradict one another on who is responsible
 

As unrest continued in Minneapolis on Saturday following the death of George Floyd during his detention by city police, leaders at the federal, state and local levels said large numbers of outsiders had seized upon protests begun by Minnesotans to advance their own political agendas.
 

But the officials offered little evidence to show who was responsible and contradicted one another on who was to blame.
 

They variously assigned responsibility for the escalating violence to far-right nationalists, left-wing radicals, drug cartels and possibly foreign agents in statements, news conferences and presidential tweets.
 

Ultimately, the confusion of rioting and looting that officials said had outstripped the capabilities of local law enforcement and prompted a historic deployment of the National Guard offered little clarity and ample opportunity for opposing political parties to advance their own theories.
 

But state officials have assessed that up to 80 percent of those protesting or rioting came from outside Minnesota, Walz said. He suggested that far-right white supremacists and perhaps organized drug cartels were chiefly responsible.

A federal law enforcement official was not aware of any intelligence about cartels infiltrating the protests.

But according to local officials, most people arrested in protest-related incidents were state residents. 

Of the 57 people arrested through Saturday morning, 47 (82 percent) provided a Minnesota address to authorities, said Jeremy Zoss, a spokesman for the Hennepin County Sheriff’s Office. Most of them gave addresses from Minneapolis and St. Paul, according to data provided to The Washington Post. The 10 other people arrested were from another state or the state wasn’t provided, Zoss said.

State officials said that after reviewing posts online, they were confident far-right racist groups had encouraged their followers to descend on the state and take advantage of the crisis.

John Harrington, commissioner of Minnesota’s Department of Public Safety, said officials were “checking to see, are they part of an organized criminal organization?”

“Is this organized crime? Is this an organized cell of terror?” he said, referring to posts by white nationalist groups.

......

“The voices of peaceful protest are being hijacked by violent radical elements,” Attorney General William P. Barr said in a statement from Justice Department headquarters.

 

Unlike state officials, Barr was unequivocal on who was to blame, claiming that the protests were “planned, organized and driven by anarchic and far-left extremist groups using antifa-like tactics,” referring to anti-fascist groups that have used violence.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/officials-blame-outsiders-for-violence-in-minnesota-but-contradict-each-other-on-who-is-responsible/2020/05/30/d722e9d6-a2b1-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html

Excuse the poor formatting, IDF doesn't wish to co-operate with plain text pasting right now.

Most of those arrested were from the twin cities, however I have no doubt that a lot of the chaos is from out-of-towners who just haven't been arrested yet. Painting the looters on one side of the political spectrum seems to be a bad take as it's clearly obvious here that both the extreme left AND extreme right are taking advantage of the situation. Of course, Trump will only call out one of those extremes.

Edited June 1, 2020 by ButterflyEffect

[TeamAudra]

 

[TeamAudra]

 

[sneaky]

1 hour ago, TeamAudra said:

So I live two counties away but Polk Co is part of my metro area. That sheriff is a notorious dbag famewhore, lol. And that county is notorious for pedophillia and he never talks about using guns on the pedos. So glad I dont live there.

 

[*Chris]

Just wow. 

 

 

 

[bswanson]

^^ now thats wrong if they are protesting peacefully they have the right to do so. if they were protesting something that helped Trump he wouldnt have a problem with it.