ANTM Photos Mini-Rankdown

[FrogLenzen]

15. April - Steve Madden

13.18 / 20

 

@Solaris – 2/20

@*Amanda – 4/20

@taylorkat – 5/20

@1234567890 – 11/20

@goofycilla90 – 11/20

@*Wallace – 12/20

@FrogLenzen – 13/20

@Gonzalo – 14/20

@*Lily – 14/20

@*Chris – 14/20

@*Diana – 16/20

@rdhaley96 – 17/20  

Public – 17/20

@DorisAnn – 18/20

@.Rei – 18/20

@Zoey – 19/20

@Alex95 – 19/20

 

Priscilla

Quote

ad-worthy.

 

Wallace

Quote

A very hot shot. 

 

Derek

Quote

Such a striking photo. It breaks so many rules of modeling but it always stands out to me. I think it’s a great image and great ad, just not a great shot of April per se. So it fell a bit in the middle but I think it easily deserved Top 20 and I’m glad it was here. The differing scores kind of balanced out the placement for this one.

 

Lily

Quote

It is a great shot of her body and the shoe, but I would have liked to have seen that gorgeous face! That keeps it from being a great shot for me.

 

Chris

Quote

I really enjoyed her pose on this shoot but not one that I particularly care for.

 

Richard

Quote

April's B&W Beauty was far better. 

 

Rei

Quote

Not a fan of not seeing her face

 

Alex

Quote

She's definitely selling the shoes here, but as a modeling picture, hiding her face is criminal.

 

 

 

14. Yoanna - Winner's Shoot

12.59 / 20

 

Derek – 3/20

Zoey – 5/20

Gigi – 6/20

Public – 9/20

Rei – 10/20

Amanda – 10/20

Diana – 11/20

Priscilla – 12/20

Wallace – 13/20

Richard – 13/20

Victoria – 14/20

Chris – 15/20

Doris – 17/20

Lily – 17/20

Sola – 19/20

Gonzalo – 20/20

Alex – 20/20

 

Derek

Quote

I am FULLY obsessed with this photograph. We did it y’all. We saved it from the bottom 5. It’s the least we could do after eliminating everything else of Yoanna’s. I think having a Top 20 leaves enough room to have one or two photos like this in the finals of our game. I think the favorable rankings this got (besides from me lol) and the fact that it was voted into the finals proves my point. I’m curious to see how other winner photos fare in our later cycles. Also, considering that Adrianne just won our Cycle 1 game with a photograph that technically wasn’t even used to judge her in the competition, that leaves a loophole. Fittingly, both Adrianne’s photo and this photo are stunning shots with lens flare with the model looking over her shoulder with hair in her face. In this essay I will

 

Rei

Quote

Really beautiful

 

Priscilla

Quote

winner.

 

Wallace

Quote

Very pretty shot. 

 

Richard

Quote

April's B&W Beauty was far better.  

 

Chris

Quote

Honestly, it's just okay.

 

Lily

Quote

I think it's a good shot, but can't say it leaves much of an impact on me. Her face is still so gorgeous here though.

 

Alex

Quote

Didn't happen in the episodes, don't curr.

 

 

 

13. Catie - Celebrity Persona

11.76 / 20

 

Gigi – 4/20

Gonzalo – 6/20

Public – 6/20

Zoey – 7/20

Sola – 8/20

Derek – 8/20

Doris – 9/20

Victoria – 12/20

Lily – 13/20

Priscilla – 13/20

Rei – 15/20

Wallace – 15/20

Richard – 16/20  

Chris – 16/20

Alex – 17/20

Amanda – 17/20

Diana – 18/20

 

Derek

Quote

This photo was supremely underrated by the judges on the show, so I was pleasantly surprised to see support for it in our game. This is easily Catie’s best photo of course, but I also like it for what it is. It’s supposed to be Marilyn, and I see that influence for sure. But more than that I feel like this is a walk-off home-run pin-up art shot. It looks like it could have been lifted directly from a retro magazine. I personally don’t really like most of the Celeb Persona photoshoot but this was one of the clear stand-outs. I was afraid this would be underrated so I’m glad it survived the bottom 5.

 

Lily

Quote

I think she took the challenge on board well because it looks exactly what I would expect of a Marilyn shot. I question whether there's maybe a line between embodying the character and almost seeming too much like a Marilyn impersonation, but then I don't think she played it too over the top. It still has a good sensuality to it in her face and overall, I like it.

 

Priscilla

Quote

pin-up.

 

Rei

Quote

Pretty great

 

Wallace

Quote

A beautiful Marilyn Monroe shot.

 

Richard

Quote

April's B&W Beauty was far better.  

 

Chris

Quote

I actually forgot about this one and I find myself liking it.

 

Alex

Quote

I think this is an amazing Marilyn Monroe impression. My problem is, it feels like an impression and not that she ~became~ her. I still like the shot obviously though.

 

 

 

12. Xiomara - Celebrity Persona

11.47 / 20

 

Doris – 1/20 

Rei – 5/20

Zoey – 6/20

Wallace – 7/20

Sola – 9/20

Victoria – 10/20

Chris – 10/20

Richard – 11/20

Lily – 12/20

Diana – 13/20

Alex – 13/20

Amanda – 13/20

Priscilla – 15/20

Gonzalo – 16/20

Public – 16/20

Gigi – 18/20

Derek – 20/20

 

Doris

Quote

Now this is a winner material! This is my only favorite photo of Xiomara during her season! It really standout from the rest in that theme.  I think it standout in here too!

 

 

Rei

Quote

Absolutely stunning

 

Wallace

Quote

Loved this from Xiomara. Her best picture by far. She captured Grace Jones perfectly.

 

Chris

Quote

You can just look at it and you know who she is channeling.

 

Richard

Quote

April's B&W Beauty was far better.  

 

Lily

Quote

Xiomara really came out of the gate and delivered a top-tier shot here in the midst of a not great portfolio. Although I wish we could see more of her face and she could deliver that great Grace Jones look there, it's all about the excellent pose in this one.

 

Alex

Quote

Ignoring the problematic styling, Xiomara objectively killed this photo. It is so powerful and so fierce. Easily her strongest photo of the competition.

 

Priscilla

Quote

daring.

 

Derek

Quote

I’m sorry, Doris, I felt bad about putting this in last place when I saw it was your number 1. Something about this photo just low key bothers me though. Grace Jones is one of the greatest and most influential artists of all time. Her dark skin is inextricably intertwined with her identity and the impact she made in western culture. Her skin was even darkened further in some of her most iconic art, such as the album cover of Nightclubbing, and she did whiteface in an iconic magazine cover for The Face. But something about Tyra assigning Grace Jones to Xiomara felt wrong. Tyra saying “we gave you Grace Jones because you DON’T look like her!” is such a lie??? Like, did you assign Shandi Nicole Kidman because she doesn’t look like Nicole Kidman? No. Did you give Sara Angelina Jolie because she doesn’t look like Angelina? No. But also why can’t Xiomara pose as Grace Jones without darkening her skin? And I can’t really see her face that well enough to see that it’s Xiomara. Plus, the styling and pose seemed a little cliché/tired… I don’t know. I feel like Grace Jones never gets the reverence she deserves on shows like this. Am I being biased in putting this low and Catie high???? I don’t knowwwww someone send help

 

 

 

11. Shandi & Yoanna - Nude Pair

10.88 / 20

 

Richard – 5/20

Chris – 5/20

Amanda – 6/20

Victoria – 7/20

Alex – 9/20

Priscilla – 9/20

Diana – 10/20

Wallace – 10/20

Gigi – 11/20

Gonzalo – 11/20

Derek – 11/20

Zoey – 12/20

Rei – 14/20

Public – 14/20

Doris – 15/20

Sola – 17/20

Lily – 19/20

 

Richard

Quote

The full-body version of this picture is truly spectacular. Both Yoanna and Shandi are killing it, but for me, Shandi steals the shot. There's something so vulnerable and delicate about it, and I definitely think her mental state at the time might've lended itself to that. But yeah, amazing shot.

 

Chris

Quote

For me, both of these shoots are tied but I am giving the edge to [redacted].

 

Alex

Quote

Now unlike the other one, this one is definitely overtly sexy and it works! This is the sexiest Shandi has ever been and she's the star of the shot. Yoanna also provides good support for Shandi and she almost looks in love with her.

 

Priscilla

Quote

sexy.

 

Wallace

Quote

Great!

 

Derek

Quote

Such a gorgeous photo. I’m in the camp that thinks Yoanna and Shandi’s expressions work amazingly well, and make this an even more intimate shot because of the bit of awkwardness. But the one thing that I cannot stand is the fact that they are wearing heels lololololol. It’s such an intimate beautiful shot but like what lesbian couple stands naked on a dock by the lake and makes sure they’re wearing their heels??? If they were barefoot and on tip-toes this photo would be 10/10 in my salon (per Andre Leon Talley).

 

Rei

Quote

It’s great but a bit overrated

 

Lily

Quote

Honestly I prefer the April/Mercedes shot personally, I just feel like it has something about it that makes it feel more special. I feel like they come together as a pair better whereas I get slightly more of a disconnect in this one.

 

[taylorkat]

Can someone help me out, I can't figure out if Richard likes April's B&W photo more than most of these!

[FrogLenzen]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:14 PM, FrogLenzen said:

CYCLE 2 PHOTOGRAPHS

 

 

April - Garden of Eden

Camille - Garden of Eden

Mercedes - Garden of Eden

 

 

Shandi - Laundry by Shelli Segal

 

 

Mercedes - Celebrity Persona

 

 

April - Quench Water

 

 

Shandi - Solstice Sunglasses

 

 

April & Mercedes - Nude Pair

 

 

Mercedes - High-End Beauty

Yoanna - High-End Beauty

And with that, we have our Top 10!

[Alex95]

Wow 10 of my top 11...I slayed

[*Wallace]

Aww Xiomara's Grace Jones shot missing out the Top 10 was the toughest showing for me.  But I can get how polarizing that photo is.

 

Mercedes with all 4 of her pictures and April with 3 of hers in the Top 10!    

[rdhaley96]

44 minutes ago, taylorkat said:

Can someone help me out, I can't figure out if Richard likes April's B&W photo more than most of these!

 

Perhaps the better question is if everyone else besides Zoey would agree with my assessments so far.

 

I'd be interested to see where we all would have placed that photo if it made it. For me, I'd actually say somewhere from #4-6?

[FrogLenzen]

2 minutes ago, rdhaley96 said:

 

Perhaps the better question is if everyone else besides Zoey would agree with my assessments so far.

 

I'd be interested to see where we all would have placed that photo if it made it. For me, I'd actually say somewhere from #4-6?

I think it would have placed in the Top 10 overall guaranteed. Personally I'm not the biggest fan and it would be in my bottom 5 probably (it's not my favorite B&W photo that week)

[taylorkat]

17 minutes ago, rdhaley96 said:

 

Perhaps the better question is if everyone else besides Zoey would agree with my assessments so far.

I agree with most of them.

[taylorkat]

21 minutes ago, rdhaley96 said:

I'd be interested to see where we all would have placed that photo if it made it. For me, I'd actually say somewhere from #4-6?

I looked at my list and I'm thinking I would have placed it around 8-10.

[Deeee]

1 hour ago, FrogLenzen said:

I’m sorry, Doris, I felt bad about putting this in last place when I saw it was your number 1. Something about this photo just low key bothers me though. Grace Jones is one of the greatest and most influential artists of all time. Her dark skin is inextricably intertwined with her identity and the impact she made in western culture. Her skin was even darkened further in some of her most iconic art, such as the album cover of Nightclubbing, and she did whiteface in an iconic magazine cover for The Face. But something about Tyra assigning Grace Jones to Xiomara felt wrong. Tyra saying “we gave you Grace Jones because you DON’T look like her!” is such a lie??? Like, did you assign Shandi Nicole Kidman because she doesn’t look like Nicole Kidman? No. Did you give Sara Angelina Jolie because she doesn’t look like Angelina? No. But also why can’t Xiomara pose as Grace Jones without darkening her skin? And I can’t really see her face that well enough to see that it’s Xiomara. Plus, the styling and pose seemed a little cliché/tired… I don’t know. I feel like Grace Jones never gets the reverence she deserves on shows like this. Am I being biased in putting this low and Catie high???? I don’t knowwwww someone send help

 

@FrogLenzen wins everything.

[1234567890]

…but Adrianne did win with the shot that was on the show?  I looked back and they kept flashing it in my face enough.

[Zoey]

I found April to be one of the most bland and vanilla contestants the more I rewatch the cycles. I find her portfolio to be full of meh.

 

The same with Shandi. Except I enjoy her in the later episodes where she becomes iconic.

[1234567890]

Sara ‘s Steve Madden shot getting #20 is not surprising seeing as she didn’t have much support and I don’t even think this was her best photo.  I thought Camille’s Solstice Sunglasses would get last just because it’s the worst of the bunch and still made it to the finals along with Shandi’s shot. Camille’s Celebrity Persona shot is one of the worst of the bunch so to see it at #18 is no shock. There were far better options. Jenescia’s Steve Madden shot show up next and I knew she wouldn’t escape the bottom 5. It’s a good photo, but I wouldn’t have it in the Top 20. The Garden of Eden is iconic shot and I’m not that surprised to see Shandi’s fall first as she does have stronger options in the end.

[1234567890]

April’s Steve Madden coming in next kind of shocks me, but then not really because of the reasons people noted. I did expect it to bet Yoanna’s Winner shot because it wasn’t on the show so I personally don’t think it should have been eligible. That’s why I asked if @FrogLenzen was even a fan of the show because it seemed like such a random choice to advance that most people don’t even remember. Two Celebrity Persona shots are next in Catie and Xiomara. I would and interchanged them and that would have been fine. Both are underrated. I preferred Shandi and Yoanna’s  Nude Pair shot to Mercedes and April’s Nude Pair shot so of course the former shows up first.  There are two photos I wouldn’t have in the Top 10, but that’s what makes rankdowns interesting. The difference of opinions.

[FrogLenzen]

23 minutes ago, 1234567890 said:

That’s why I asked if @FrogLenzen was even a fan of the show because it seemed like such a random choice to advance that most people don’t even remember.

Yes, I definitely made this thread because I’m not a fan of the show 

[1234567890]

15 minutes ago, FrogLenzen said:

Yes, I definitely made this thread because I’m not a fan of the show 

[*Wallace]

2 hours ago, rdhaley96 said:

 

Perhaps the better question is if everyone else besides Zoey would agree with my assessments so far.

 

I'd be interested to see where we all would have placed that photo if it made it. For me, I'd actually say somewhere from #4-6?

Ooh I agree too. I would have loved and preferred having April's and Mercedes 'B&W Beauty shots in the Top 20 over some of those showing up in the 20-16 set. 

[*Diana]

yoanna deserves better than this.

[FrogLenzen]

10. April - Quench Water

10.47 / 20

 

@*Amanda – 3/20

@goofycilla90 – 4/20

@Alex95 – 5/20

@1234567890 – 6/20

@.Rei – 8/20
@*Diana – 8/20

@*Lily – 8/20

@taylorkat – 9/20

@rdhaley96 – 9/20

@Gonzalo – 13/20

@Solaris – 13/20

@*Chris – 13/20

@*Wallace – 14/20

@FrogLenzen – 14/20

Public – 15/20

@Zoey – 16/20

@DorisAnn – 20/20

 

Priscilla

Quote

queen.

 

Alex

Quote

How she produced one of the best photos of the cycle in one of the most difficult settings proves she's a star.

 

Rei

Quote

Brilliant

 

Lily

Quote

What a gorgeous shot! Especially in a group where quite a few struggled. She is selling every aspect.

 

Richard

Quote

April killed it here. Too bad about the cheesy editing and mediocre photography, because this could have been one of the best pictures of the cycle otherwise.

 

Chris

Quote

Definitely the strongest from that shoot but not one that I particularly love that much.

 

Wallace

Quote

A beautiful underwater shot.

 

Derek

Quote

There have been some obvious FCO over the course of the series, but this is one of the times where one contestant dominated not only the other contestants but the photoshoot itself. April crushed this. She made a dynamic image and still looks serene… what she accomplished here can’t be understated, and it’s amplified by the fact that everyone else was terrible.  

 

Doris

Quote

 

Not really a top 20 material. Could've swap it with one of the Celebrity Persona or Steve Madden, also quench water is just one of the worst theme!

 

 

 

9. Camille - Garden of Eden

9.47 / 20

 

Zoey – 2/20
Lily – 2/20

Doris – 3/20

Priscilla – 5/20

Gigi – 7/20

Gonzalo – 7/20

Sola – 7/20

Alex – 8/20

Diana – 9/20

Wallace – 11/20

Chris – 11/20

Derek – 12/20

Public – 13/20

Richard – 15/20  

Amanda – 16/20

Victoria – 16/20

Rei – 17/20

 

Lily

Quote

Ok but look at how she bodied that! I love Camille although there's a couple shots of hers in this top 20 I'm not crazy about. But the Garden of Eden shot is an exception. She just exudes power in this shot. I don't see it being one of the higher rankers but I do think it is a sensational shot especially for the first shoot, and my personal favorite there.

 

Priscilla

Quote

breathtaking.

 

Alex

Quote

Her best photo of two cycles of competition. This shot is FIERCE! She is so powerful and regal here.

 

Wallace

Quote

I thought this was Camile’s best picture. A great shot.

 

Chris

Quote

One of my personal favourite of Camille.

 

Derek

Quote

Right out of the gate Camille showed she is a star and someone to be reckoned with. The confidence through the crazy styling is great. Agree with Alex that this was her best on the show, so a bit of a shame that it happened so early and she wasn’t able to capture the same magic later. But there is a LOT of magic here.

 

Richard

Quote

April's B&W Beauty was far better. 

 

 

 

8. Mercedes - Celebrity Persona

9.29 / 20

 

Wallace – 2/20

Chris – 4/20

Gonzalo – 5/20

Lily – 6/20

Doris – 7/20

Public – 7/20

Richard – 8/20

Zoey – 9/20

Rei – 9/20

Alex – 10/20

Derek – 10/20

Diana – 12/20

Amanda – 12/20

Victoria – 13/20

Gigi – 14/20

Priscilla – 14/20

Sola – 16/20

 

Wallace

Quote

I thought this was an absolutely beautiful picture.  Mercedes looks so gorgeous and really captured Billie Holiday perfectly here. 

 

Chris

Quote

One of the best of the Celebrity persona.

 

Lily

Quote

A superb shot, simple but greatly effective. Captures the essence of Billie Holiday/the celebrity persona really well.

 

Richard

Quote

Gorgeous in its simplicity. Mercedes is evoking a lot with just her eyes. Overall, I do think this picture is slightly overrated, but it's still a great one. 

 

Rei

Quote

Iconic

 

Alex

Quote

This is an iconic photo. Mercedes tapped into a deep place emotionally here and delivered a flawless shot.

 

Derek

Quote

This photoshoot is not my favorite, but the photo is gorgeous. I gave it a tiny boost in my rankings because it is just so iconic. Mercedes had ups and downs in the early weeks, but this proved that she had what it takes to be a true contender. It’s important to have these kinds of big moments on the show when you are competing for attention.

 

Priscilla

Quote

sophisticated.

 

 

 

7. Shandi - Laundry by Shelli Segal

8.35 / 20

 

Alex – 2/20

Sola – 3/20

Victoria – 3/20

Priscilla – 3/20

Lily – 5/20

Rei – 6/20

Richard – 6/20

Gigi – 8/20

Gonzalo – 9/20

Wallace – 9/20

Amanda – 9/20

Chris – 9/20

Derek – 9/20

Public – 10/20

Zoey – 15/20

Diana – 17/20

Doris – 19/20

 

Alex

Quote

Stunning! She legit looks like Kesha here. Her eyes are just so powerful, the styling is androgynous and she leans into it. I hope this shot does well because it deserves to.

 

Priscilla

Quote

edgy.

 

Lily

Quote

What a moment for Shandi. A great start of her transformation story, easily the shot of the week.

 

Rei

Quote

Absolutely stunning

 

Richard

Quote

Shandi looks phenomenal in this picture. There's so much character in this shot, and I love that it sells this really cool and interesting narrative. This was Shandi's first truly great picture and was a sign that even more good moments were on the horizon.

 

Wallace

Quote

Really cool picture and the best photo of that week.

 

Chris

Quote

One of my favourites of Shandi.

 

Derek

Quote

Shandi’s Garden of Eden shot was before she stepped into her power, and this is the shot where she did. Suddenly she wasn’t just the girl with the nice makeover, but she was a fierce model as well. An important early moment in the rise of Shandi. Easily the best of this photoshoot, but not as much of a blowout as April in Quench.

 

 

 

6. April & Mercedes - Nude Pair

8 / 20

 

Gigi – 1/20

Richard – 2/20 

Gonzalo – 3/20

Rei – 3/20

Wallace – 4/20

Diana – 5/20

Amanda – 5/20

Alex – 6/20

Chris – 6/20

Public – 8/20

Doris – 11/20

Sola – 11/20

Lily – 11/20

Zoey – 14/20

Victoria – 15/20

Derek – 15/20

Priscilla – 16/20

 

Gigi

Quote

Thank you to those that selected this photo for the top 20! 

 

Richard

Quote

From a modeling perspective, this probably shouldn't be my #2. However, from a visual standpoint, there's no picture from this cycle I love more. It's incredibly captivating. The way Mercedes and April are intertwined, the way the lighting gently hits them, it's just all so gorgeous and has so much narrative potential. This picture is simply a work of art. 

 

Rei

Quote

This photo makes me doubt my sexuality. Absolutely amazing

 

Wallace

Quote

A stunning, sexy and sensual shot. Love it!

 

Alex

Quote

I like the angle these two went with this shot. It could've been overtly sexual, but instead they made it soft and emotional. It's a completely unexpected picture and it works!

 

Chris

Quote

For me, both of these shoots are tied but I am giving the edge to [the other one].

 

Lily

Quote

Really gorgeous on both ends here. The April/Mercedes friendship still going strong to this day 

 

Derek

Quote

The two nude photos from this week is a fascinating study in how two photos with the same concept can turn out so different. This is a divine image of Mercedes, and April’s body is great. Don’t love how the angle of April's face makes her nose/mouth look though. Never been my favorite shot. Personally, based on JUST the photos this week, I can kind of see why April placed 4th. I don’t think she necessarily should have went home based on everything else, but oh well.

 

Priscilla

Quote

sensual.

 

[FrogLenzen]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:14 PM, FrogLenzen said:

CYCLE 2 PHOTOGRAPHS

 

 

April - Garden of Eden

Mercedes - Garden of Eden

 

 

Shandi - Solstice Sunglasses

 

 

Mercedes - High-End Beauty

Yoanna - High-End Beauty

Congrats to the Top 5!

[*Diana]

The top kinda of slays 

[*Chris]

ICONIC TOP 5!

[*Chris]

Just now, *Chris said:

ICONIC TOP 5!

My top 3 plus 2 in my top 10 - I am surprised with how well I did  

[FrogLenzen]

Alex

1.

3.

4.

7.

11.

 

Amanda

1.

2.

7.

8.

11.

 

Chris

1.

2.

3.

7.

8.

 

Derek

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

 

Diana

1.

2.

3.

6.

7.

 

Doris

2.

4.

5.

10.

14.

 

Gigi

2.

3.

10.

13.

15.

 

Gonzalo

1.

2.

4.

8.

10.

 

Lily

1.

3.

4.

7.

9.

 

Priscilla

1.

2.

6.

7.

8.

 

Rei

1.

2.

4.

7.

13.

 

Richard

1.

3.

4.

7.

10.

 

Sola

1.

4.

5.

12.

20.

 

Victoria

1.

2.

4.

5.

9.

 

Wallace

1.

3.

5.

6.

8.

 

Zoey

1.

3.

8.

13.

17.

 

Public

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

[FrogLenzen]

Just now, FrogLenzen said:

Alex

1.

3.

4.

7.

11.

 

Amanda

1.

2.

7.

8.

11.

 

Chris

1.

2.

3.

7.

8.

 

Derek

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

 

Diana

1.

2.

3.

6.

7.

 

Doris

2.

4.

5.

10.

14.

 

Gigi

2.

3.

10.

13.

15.

 

Gonzalo

1.

2.

4.

8.

10.

 

Lily

1.

3.

4.

7.

9.

 

Priscilla

1.

2.

6.

7.

8.

 

Rei

1.

2.

4.

7.

13.

 

Richard

1.

3.

4.

7.

10.

 

Sola

1.

4.

5.

12.

20.

 

Victoria

1.

2.

4.

5.

9.

 

Wallace

1.

3.

5.

6.

8.

 

Zoey

1.

3.

8.

13.

17.

 

Public

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

These lists are so much easier to make when you already have all the rankings