Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, Smoochy said: Yes. Nothing wrong with being successful or having money. My issue comes from people who are so rich that they hoard wealth while we have kids going hungry and veterans sleeping on the street. I’m of the belief system that there can be haves and have nots, but on a much less extreme scale. I completely agree with you. I also think Americans aren't going to grasp the difference between socialism and democratic socialism. The whole thing about Bernie praising literacy rates under Fidel Castro was problematic too. What he said was fine technically and there was nothing wrong with it, but when you have to spend the majority of your time contending with these unnecessary explanations, you're not winning the argument even though you're right on the substance. Do you agree with that bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoochy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Drew said: I completely agree with you. I also think Americans aren't going to grasp the difference between socialism and democratic socialism. The whole thing about Bernie praising literacy rates under Fidel Castro was problematic too. What he said was fine technically and there was nothing wrong with it, but when you have to spend the majority of your time contending with these unnecessary explanations, you're not winning the argument even though you're right on the substance. Do you agree with that bit? Absolutely. Bernie isn’t completely free from what happened this go around. I wish he had branded himself as a FDR Democrat or a New Deal Democrat. He spent way too much time trying to explain what Democratic Socialism is and how it differs from full blown Socialism. You're spot on with the Cuba/Castro comments too. I also feel like this election cycle is 100% about beating Trump for most Democrats, so they’re going with Joe who they feel like has the best shot. I disagree personally, but I’m just one guy. If this were just your regular election, I think Bernie May have actually come out ahead as all the polling shows his policy ideas are popular among the Democratic base, but it seems like most don’t think he can beat Trump, which hurt him. Edited March 11, 2020 by Smoochy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamAudra Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, Smoochy said: Yes. Nothing wrong with being successful or having money. My issue comes from people who are so rich that they hoard wealth while we have kids going hungry and veterans sleeping on the street. I’m of the belief system that there can be haves and have nots, but on a much less extreme scale. He’s somehow amassed a reported net worth of $2.5 million, which is fine with me. I actually think that’s a somewhat modest number for a 78 year old man. I just can’t get over the hypocrisy of Bernie and his supporters. Also, how much did he spend on private jets over the past year? How much fossil fuel was consumed, so that he could fly around the country preaching his nonsense? Of course, he’s not the only one who doesn’t practice what they preach. Liberals who overlook these things are the worst hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Smoochy said: Absolutely. Bernie isn’t completely free from what happened this go around. I wish he had branded himself as a FDR Democrat or a New Deal Democrat. He spent way too much time trying to explain what Democratic Socialism is and how it differs from full blown Socialism. You're spot on with the Cuba/Castro comments too. I also feel like this election cycle is 100% about beating Trump for most Democrats, so they’re going with Joe who they feel like has the best shot. I disagree personally, but I’m just one guy. If this were just your regular election, I think Bernie May have actually come out ahead as all the polling shows his policy ideas are popular among the Democratic base, but it seems like most don’t think he can beat Trump, which hurt him. Do you think there's a serious concern about uniting the party this time around? Or do you think even though there will be disaffected young folks and just Bernie supporters that feel the DNC, the media, pundits, and other assorted establishment types treated him unfairly, they'll unite behind Biden in the end? How much of what happened last time was also Hillary's inability to unite the party? It's also difficult because I can see both sides to this one. Mondale lost in a landslide to Reagan, someone that so many said was a joke. A nice guy, but he was an actor, he couldn't possibly be our president. That said, how many genuine progressive politicians have we run in presidential elections in the last forty or fifty years? I can't think of many...You don't always know who's electable until it's done, at least in our recent history there are two notable examples of that, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoochy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, TeamAudra said: He’s somehow amassed a reported net worth of $2.5 million, which is fine with me. I actually think that’s a somewhat modest number for a 78 year old man. I just can’t get over the hypocrisy of Bernie and his supporters. Also, how much did he spend on private jets over the past year? How much fossil fuel was consumed, so that he could fly around the country preaching his nonsense? Of course, he’s not the only one who doesn’t practice what they preach. Liberals who overlook these things are the worst hypocrites. Yes, 2.5 million for a 78 year old is quite modest. I’m not running for office or anything, so it doesn’t matter, but my cut off for pure wealth would be you can’t make more than 15 million per year. Anything above 15 million per year is taxed at 100%. Extreme for conservatives and libertarians, yes, but it’s actually pretty modest and to the right of socialists and communists. The private jet thing I don’t like (haven’t researched to see the exact number) but since people are crazy and presidential candidates don’t have secret service, I can’t blame any of them for flying private. Factor in deadlines for rallies and speeches, and it makes the most sense even though it’s something I’m not a fan of. Not sure how I’m being a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoochy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Drew said: Do you think there's a serious concern about uniting the party this time around? Or do you think even though there will be disaffected young folks and just Bernie supporters that feel the DNC, the media, pundits, and other assorted establishment types treated him unfairly, they'll unite behind Biden in the end? How much of what happened last time was also Hillary's inability to unite the party? It's also difficult because I can see both sides to this one. Mondale lost in a landslide to Reagan, someone that so many said was a joke. A nice guy, but he was an actor, he couldn't possibly be our president. That said, how many genuine progressive politicians have we run in presidential elections in the last forty or fifty years? I can't think of many...You don't always know who's electable until it's done, at least in our recent history there are two notable examples of that, obviously. That I’m not sure of. I’ve seen Bernie people say they’ll do whatever it takes to get Trump out and I’ve seen some say they’ll watch the party burn until something is changed. If it was anyone but climate denier Trump in the White House, I’d be okay with watching it burn, but I think getting Biden in at least helps some and maybe someone to Biden’s left can take over later on. Biden is really weak among young voters like Bernie is with older voters. However, the youth doesn’t seem to be turning out all that well this cycle so far, so who knows if it will make a huge difference in November if they mostly stay home. I feel like the working class voters are where this election will be decided. If the primaries are to be believed, Joe has a hold on that group despite his history of supporting trade deals that hurt the middle class. You’re absolutely right about electability. Almost no one expected Trump to win in 2016 and look what happened. Now, if the electoral college wasn’t a thing, I’d probably be easier to figure out who would win the election, but when you have a handful of states that essentially decide the race, it makes it much tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamAudra Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) Ronald Reagan was “an actor, he couldn’t possibly be our president,” How many people actually said that? Maybe some strong detractors? Sure, he was an actor....prior to serving two terms as the Governor of California. That’s not comparable. Edited March 11, 2020 by TeamAudra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamAudra Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Smoochy said: Yes, 2.5 million for a 78 year old is quite modest. I’m not running for office or anything, so it doesn’t matter, but my cut off for pure wealth would be you can’t make more than 15 million per year. Anything above 15 million per year is taxed at 100%. Extreme for conservatives and libertarians, yes, but it’s actually pretty modest and to the right of socialists and communists. The private jet thing I don’t like (haven’t researched to see the exact number) but since people are crazy and presidential candidates don’t have secret service, I can’t blame any of them for flying private. Factor in deadlines for rallies and speeches, and it makes the most sense even though it’s something I’m not a fan of. Not sure how I’m being a hypocrite. You just said it. It’s more convent for him to travel on private planes. It’s OK for him, but others should make sacrifices. Having 3 homes also results in consuming more fossil fuels, but it’s OK for wealthy Democrats/Socialists, as long as they promise enough free sh-t and tell you what you want to hear. Edited March 11, 2020 by TeamAudra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoochy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, TeamAudra said: You just said it. It’s more convent for him to travel on private planes. It’s OK for him, but others should make sacrifices. Having 3 homes also results in consuming more fossil fuels, but it’s OK for wealthy Democrats, as long as they promise enough free sh-t and tell you what you want to hear. Where did I say you shouldn’t be able to fly private if you can afford to? I’m not a fan of private planes, but I understand the need for them for certain people. Whether that be the President, a CEO, or just a rich family who doesn’t like to fly commercial. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work towards renewable energy to help the planet. Yes, the “free shit” isn’t free. It comes from tax dollars that we’re spending on other things like unnecessary wars, insane military budgets, a wall, bailouts for Wall Street, and etc... I simply want tax dollars to go back into programs that help average Americans. Is that really that extreme? I know we won’t see eye to eye on this, and that’s okay. Agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Chris Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 hours ago, psterina said: Well … keep laughing honey, cuz guess what? Trillions of YOUR tax $$, keep going out for the powerful elite, not to mention the many, many lives lost, that we are KNOWINGLY funding!! So, yes … let's continue THAT, while our country is falling apart at the seams, and the entire world, is looking upon us, as the worlds police. The ONLY candidate, that was willing to take that on, was ghosted & smeared. But, by all means …. keep laughing, because the joke, is on us ALL As for myself, as a lifelong democrat, I will be leaving the party, and like most of the country, will become an independent. Or, if Tulsi, begins a new party, I will join that. The war mongering, deception & corruption, of the DNC & MSM, is not something I want to be a part of, or contribute to. And... I will write Tulsi's name in during the General Election. Even risking, the re-election of the worst president, I have ever seen. And lead to another Trump presidency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamAudra Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) Biden blames Bernie for the heated exchange with the union voter (“you’re full of shit”). Edited March 11, 2020 by TeamAudra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, TeamAudra said: Ronald Reagan was “an actor, he couldn’t possibly be our president,” How many people actually said that? Maybe some strong detractors? Sure, he was an actor....prior to serving two terms as the Governor of California. That’s not comparable. Well, maybe there was more to it than that but he was well known by most as that and yes, Governor as well. But, so much was said about him at the time that was negative and now he's revered by the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Politico is reporting that Bernie Sanders is staying in the 2020 presidential race and planning to debate Joe Biden on Sunday despite a string of recent primary losses, according to a person with knowledge of Sanders’ plans ahead of a Wednesday press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamAudra Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Drew said: Well, maybe there was more to it than that but he was well known by most as that and yes, Governor as well. But, so much was said about him at the time that was negative and now he's revered by the right. The negative stuff came from his detractors. A long time strategy of the left (and much of the media) is to make Republicans appear to be “dumb.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoochy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Drew said: Politico is reporting that Bernie Sanders is staying in the 2020 presidential race and planning to debate Joe Biden on Sunday despite a string of recent primary losses, according to a person with knowledge of Sanders’ plans ahead of a Wednesday press conference. This doesn't surprise me. It's a long shot for him to come out ahead, but he's going to give it one more shot. Biden hasn't performed well in the debates up to this point and since the field was so crowded, he never really had to. Now that it'll be Bernie vs Biden with no one else there to jump in or shout over one another, it'll show if Biden is actually up to the challenged of a 1 on 1 debate. If he can't handle Bernie, you know he won't be able to handle Trump. I may dislike Trump, but the guy knows what to do in a 1 on 1 debate. He can get under your skin and shift the whole narrative of the debate. If Biden struggles to debate Bernie with policy issues, can you imagine what would happen if Trump gets up there and hits Biden on trade AND goes after his mental health (since we already know Trump won't shy away from that even if there is no 100% proof that Biden is in cognitive decline). Still probably the end of line for Bernie, unfortunately, but it's worth giving it one last go. See if you can swing some of the upcoming states with a strong debate performance. Edited March 11, 2020 by Smoochy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamAudra Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) Bernie’s debate strategy should be to try to get under Biden’s skin, and get him to lose his temper as often as possible. It shouldn’t be difficult. Edited March 11, 2020 by TeamAudra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogLenzen Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I imagine that Bernie's goal is not to win the primary at this point, but to keep progressive issues in the spotlight. Hopefully he can convince Biden to adopt more progressive views, and at the very least choose a running mate that is more interesting that Tim effing Kaine lololol. Ignoring the progressive wing of the party after she secured the nom contributed to Hillary's downfall imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoochy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, FrogLenzen said: I imagine that Bernie's goal is not to win the primary at this point, but to keep progressive issues in the spotlight. Hopefully he can convince Biden to adopt more progressive views, and at the very least choose a running mate that is more interesting that Tim effing Kaine lololol. Ignoring the progressive wing of the party after she secured the nom contributed to Hillary's downfall imo. That's definitely the message I got in his speech today. He knows he can't win at this point, but he wants Biden to address his policy platform and attempt to pull him to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 This just MUST happen! There has never been a more perfect ticket! And it will wipe Trump out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 ^ A very strong ticket for sure. Andrew Napolitano floated online earlier the possibility of an outside the box unity pick like John Kasich. I of course would be all over that, but I doubt that would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercfan3 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 hours ago, TeamAudra said: If you were in charge, would Bernie be able to keep all three houses? Anyway, I’m convinced that guy would be a full blown Communist if he thought he could get enough support to get re-elected. TBHI don't find Bernie to be that progressive. Sure, economically, he's "to the left." But his ideals..universal healthcare, making wealthy people pay their fair share of taxes, equal opportunities in education, building up the middle class. Those are all Democrat ideals. Essentially, that the government should provide positive economic rights. Similarly, Democrats are all in the same place on the environment. However, he's severely lacking on issues of criminal justice, and social justice issues, and international ideology. Being an isolationist is not progressive. (or realistic) My problem is his solutions - which tend to suggest that he does not know what the hell he is talking about. Perfect example, he claims to be a peace focused isolationist..but then cites FDR as his ideal president in International relations. The FDR that essentially banned Jewish immigrants from entering the country? Who approved the construction of the atomic bomb? Who entered the country into WWII? Who created Japanese internment camps? THAT is the President that Bernie cites as his ideal? Their policies don't fit and Bernie didn't even know it, or worse..thought his base wouldn't. Or how he insists that medicare for all is the only way to achieve Universal Healthcare. Pete finally called him out on it, when explaining that even Denmark has private insurance. Or how he insists that as President, he'll end fracking on day one, make weed legal, and release all individuals imprisoned because of marijuana - even though a President can't do that. Or how he can't ever tell us how he is going to enact something and how much it will cost - and when asked he lashes out. Again, it just suggests he's inept or thinks his base is dumb. (And given his political accomplishments, I lean towards inept) I think one thing that unites Americans politically is this deep belief that power shouldn't be trusted. The difference, ideologically, tends to be that Democrats see business and corporations as power too, while Conservatives focus on the government. Bernie's solutions are problematic because they put too much power into the government's hands (beyond not being possible or an overreach of power, or simply bad solutions), even for someone who trusts the government more than corporations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercfan3 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, TeamAudra said: Bernie’s debate strategy should be to try to get under Biden’s skin, and get him to lose his temper as often as possible. It shouldn’t be difficult. Biden should just stop debating him. That's what Obama did to Clinton. The primary is over. Biden should be focusing on the general. Bernie staying in the race just means that Biden will take hits from both sides again. Bernie has no leverage here. But I'm not surprised he won't drop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 And just after opening, Wall street closes trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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