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The American Politics Thread!

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Drew
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I've been pretty supportive of most measures against the virus (distancing, masks, limiting capacity in or temporarily closing places where people gather in large numbers) with the caveat that we only had to do this until we had vaccines. Now we do, so I do not think we should bring back the restrictions of the last year, despite rises in cases. Otherwise there's no end. The data speaks for itself: at this point, most of the people testing positive and almost all of the people getting gravely ill are unvaccinated. You aren't 100% guaranteed to not get it or pass it on, and you probably won't be for years. Personally, I'm not rushing back to concerts or major sporting events yet, and I still check the cases once in a while like I do the weather, but I'm generally comfortable living with the small amount of risk and possible outcomes as a person who is fully vaccinated.

 

If the virus mutates into something more dangerous that can get around the vaccines, we'll obviously have to re-assess. But at this point, the consequences of continued measures (especially schools, seniors who are alone, and family members who cannot see each other) outweigh the benefit of total safety from living life on the computer and wearing masks forever.

 

Though I'm also weary of bad faith politicians who are still using pandemic discourse as culture war ammunition. In the Canadian province of Alberta, they're not just lifting all restrictions but stopping most testing and no longer requiring people who test positive to isolate. Just because it feels good for the premier's right-wing base to hear, even though they're the ones most endangered by it. I get the same vibes from DeSantis. Just say people can do what they want and move on.

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11 hours ago, RWG said:

I've been pretty supportive of most measures against the virus (distancing, masks, limiting capacity in or temporarily closing places where people gather in large numbers) with the caveat that we only had to do this until we had vaccines. Now we do, so I do not think we should bring back the restrictions of the last year, despite rises in cases. Otherwise there's no end. The data speaks for itself: at this point, most of the people testing positive and almost all of the people getting gravely ill are unvaccinated. You aren't 100% guaranteed to not get it or pass it on, and you probably won't be for years. Personally, I'm not rushing back to concerts or major sporting events yet, and I still check the cases once in a while like I do the weather, but I'm generally comfortable living with the small amount of risk and possible outcomes as a person who is fully vaccinated.

 

If the virus mutates into something more dangerous that can get around the vaccines, we'll obviously have to re-assess. But at this point, the consequences of continued measures (especially schools, seniors who are alone, and family members who cannot see each other) outweigh the benefit of total safety from living life on the computer and wearing masks forever.

 

Though I'm also weary of bad faith politicians who are still using pandemic discourse as culture war ammunition. In the Canadian province of Alberta, they're not just lifting all restrictions but stopping most testing and no longer requiring people who test positive to isolate. Just because it feels good for the premier's right-wing base to hear, even though they're the ones most endangered by it. I get the same vibes from DeSantis. Just say people can do what they want and move on.


DeSantis is basically saying what you just laid out in your post. There are three vaccines widely available, there is pressure from the medical community and some local jurisdictions in his state to impose restrictions/mandates, and he’s just making it clear he isn’t going to support that. He’s never said anything about stopping testing or no longer requiring those testing positive to isolate. His rhetoric may be strong at times, but he obviously feels the need to get public opinion on his side. He was just as forceful in his comments urging Floridians to get vaccinated as he was when he spoke out against additional lockdowns and mandates. I do not believe he is acting in “bad faith.” Aside from that, I agree with everything you said, 100%. 

Edited by TeamAudra
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are there breakthru cases yes, but if you are fully vaccinated the chance of you getting it is very rare. its your perosnal choice to get it, but its just amazing some people would rather risk being on a venilator or worse dying than getting a simple vaccine. i agree though no more lockdowns 

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13 minutes ago, bswanson said:

are there breakthru cases yes, but if you are fully vaccinated the chance of you getting it is very rare. its your perosnal choice to get it, but its just amazing some people would rather risk being on a venilator or worse dying than getting a simple vaccine. i agree though no more lockdowns 


Hmmm....

 

How rare?

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10 minutes ago, bswanson said:

dont know  just going by the cdc info  https://abcnews.go.com/US/symptomatic-brea and even if you still get it the vaccine willl most lieky keep you out of the hospital. most people in the hospitals now are the unvaccinated. 


The link doesn’t work. I’m focused on the previous comment, btw. I understand it can limit the severity in the event someone tests positive for the virus. 

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4 hours ago, TeamAudra said:


The link doesn’t work. I’m focused on the previous comment, btw. I understand it can limit the severity in the event someone tests positive for the virus. 

yeah thats what i meant you can still get it with the vaccine but you will likely be fine and stay out of the hospital. sure i get people are hesitnat to get it and I hope friends or family of those people who are already vaccianted would sit down talk with them and tell them its safe. I think that is the best way to maybe convince them to get it. 

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I have a suspicion that the vaccines arent as effective as we like to think. By the same token, all these people up in arms about getting vaccinated. Most of them have no problem shoving McDonalds or similar crap in their mouth so its...interesting

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44 minutes ago, sneaky said:

I have a suspicion that the vaccines arent as effective as we like to think. By the same token, all these people up in arms about getting vaccinated. Most of them have no problem shoving McDonalds or similar crap in their mouth so its...interesting


That’s a good point. Obesity is a huge risk factor. Take a look at some of the people lecturing others about masks and vaccines. 

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2 hours ago, TeamAudra said:


That’s a good point. Obesity is a huge risk factor. Take a look at some of the people lecturing others about masks and vaccines. 

I had a family member pass away from COVID like a month ago (not in the US). She was in decent enough health/not obese/major conditions, not super old, I believe early/mid-50s. Her mom (80s-90s, bedridden, dementia, just... a lot of problems) got COVID and she took her to the hospital. Her 80+ yr old mother is now fine but my relative contracted COVID at the hospital, struggled for like 3 weeks, and ultimately passed a couple weeks ago. Masking over there isn't as big of a problem/controversy like here in the US but the vaccine is barely becoming accessible over there. And even then, a lot of my other family members over there (and here in the US) are still hesitant to get the vaccine.

 

COVID seems to just pick and choose who it wants to hit the worst. I agree obesity and health conditions only negatively impact their odds at survival, but it's no coincidence that as vaccinations increased in the US, the COVID rate went down and the same thing is happening right now in the other country as the vaccine is becoming more available. I just think it's worth it, even if you're in super good health or if you already had COVID and didn't get hit too bad, to get the jab. You can still get COVID but the unvaccinated do seem to be the vast majority of COVID deaths now. Not sure whether that 99% statistic is entirely accurate, but I do imagine it's somewhere near there.

Edited by Someone648
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12 minutes ago, Someone648 said:

I had a family member pass away from COVID like a month ago (not in the US). She was in decent enough health/not obese/major conditions, not super old, I believe early/mid-50s. Her mom (80s-90s, bedridden, dementia, just... a lot of problems) got COVID and she took her to the hospital. Her 80+ yr old mother is now fine but my relative contracted COVID at the hospital, struggled for like 3 weeks, and ultimately passed a couple weeks ago. Masking over there isn't as big of a problem/controversy like here in the US but the vaccine is barely becoming accessible over there. And even then, a lot of my other family members over there (and here in the US) are still hesitant to get the vaccine.

 

COVID seems to just pick and choose who it wants to hit the worst. I agree obesity and health conditions only negatively impact their odds at survival, but it's no coincidence that as vaccinations increased in the US, the COVID rate went down and the same thing is happening right now in the other country as the vaccine is becoming more available. I just think it's worth it, even if you're in super good health or if you already had COVID and didn't get hit too bad, to get the jab. You can still get COVID but the unvaccinated do seem to be the vast majority of COVID deaths now. Not sure whether that 99% statistic is entirely accurate, but I do imagine it's somewhere near there.


I totally get that, and agree, but the point is there are a lot of people who lecture everyone about masks who don’t appear to pay much attention to their own health. We’ve all seen these people on social media, and regardless of which side of the issue you’re on, you’ve likely been annoyed by some of them. :haha: The mask/vaccine issue turns some people into lunatics. I’m a big proponent of personal responsibility, rather than having to be told what to do. That said, I’m fully vaccinated, and have always followed the mask mandates in my state, and still have to wear one for work in certain situations (and I don’t complain about it). 

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8 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:


I totally get that, and agree, but the point is there are a lot of people who lecture everyone about masks who don’t appear to pay much attention to their own health. We’ve all seen these people on social media, and regardless of which side of the issue you’re on, you’ve likely been annoyed by some of them. :haha: The mask/vaccine issue turns some people into lunatics. I’m a big proponent of personal responsibility, rather than having to be told what to do. That said, I’m fully vaccinated, and have always followed the mask mandates in my state, and still have to wear one for work in certain situations (and I don’t complain about it). 

Definitely agree. It's made everyone at least a little bit crazy on all parts of the political spectrum. I sure as hell am NOT qualified to be giving people health advice with the amount of fast food I eat :haha: I hoped COVID would at least make everyone slightly more conscious about personal space and how our actions affect each other but given that some stuff is still super controversial, not everyone got the message lol

 

I believe you mentioned that you work with older individuals/seniors. How have they been dealing with the vaccine/masking? Are most of them vaccinated and masking up or have there been a good chunk who have been hesitant/outright rejecting it? From what I've seen in my community, it's been a really mixed reception with extremes on both ends, even if I do live in one of the "bluest" states (but one of the reddest districts...)

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2 minutes ago, Someone648 said:

Definitely agree. It's made everyone at least a little bit crazy on all parts of the political spectrum. I sure as hell am NOT qualified to be giving people health advice with the amount of fast food I eat :haha: I hoped COVID would at least make everyone slightly more conscious about personal space and how our actions affect each other but given that some stuff is still super controversial, not everyone got the message lol

 

I believe you mentioned that you work with older individuals/seniors. How have they been dealing with the vaccine/masking? Are most of them vaccinated and masking up or have there been a good chunk who have been hesitant/outright rejecting it? From what I've seen in my community, it's been a really mixed reception with extremes on both ends, even if I do live in one of the "bluest" states (but one of the reddest districts...)


I deal with people of all ages, backgrounds, races, ethnic groups. But, a decent percentage of them happen to be seniors. Most of the people I meet with are vaccinated, and tell me it’s OK if I want to take my mask off. I just tell them I’m required to leave it on. Some see I have a mask, and ask me if they need to wear one, and I say it’s up to them. A lot of my work is in South Minneapolis. They were generally the first to wear masks last year, and once they became vaccinated, they ditched the masks. If you know anything about South Minneapolis, you probably know that population is overwhelmingly liberal. My point is nobody wants to be told to wear masks anymore, or told they can’t go do what they want. Not even those liberals, who were 100% behind the mandates and restrictions last year. 

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^ oh yes you are right some of those people are hyopcrtics that tlell you to wear a mask but dont look healthy themsleves. they are just as bad as the covid deniers. how can those people say it doesnt exist at all when you see hospitals full of people .and yes now with the vaccine things should open up.  about masks leave it up to each person you feel safer weating one then wear one, but leave each other alone. its wrong on both sides when you see somone with a mask shaming someone without and the ones w/o mask shaming those who wear one. just let people do what they want. you may not agree with it but still their choice. and just wanted to say i do think people should get the vaccine but would never yell at people that didnt. its their choice. im  not one of those people you see on social media vids yelling at or shamig the people that didnt get it. 

Edited by bswanson
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On 7/30/2021 at 9:03 AM, TeamAudra said:


DeSantis is basically saying what you just laid out in your post. There are three vaccines widely available, there is pressure from the medical community and some local jurisdictions in his state to impose restrictions/mandates, and he’s just making it clear he isn’t going to support that. He’s never said anything about stopping testing or no longer requiring those testing positive to isolate. His rhetoric may be strong at times, but he obviously feels the need to get public opinion on his side. He was just as forceful in his comments urging Floridians to get vaccinated as he was when he spoke out against additional lockdowns and mandates. I do not believe he is acting in “bad faith.” Aside from that, I agree with everything you said, 100%. 

 

I don't pretend to follow him closely, but every time he comes across my radar, it feels obvious he is playing to the "Covid's not a big deal" animus of the party's base. I also saw him in the gutter with some government researcher and the cruise ship companies over mandatory vaccinations. He's good at these types of fights and they probably help him nationally, but there's obviously far too few people vaccinates in his state. In know this sounds anecdotal, but that is the context for my observation of DeSanits.

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^ you are right just look now, they lead the country in hospitizations. yes lockdowns hurt the economy , but if your state leads the country in cases and hospitizatios, that will also hurt the econmy, do you think tourists will want to go to a state that leads in cases. also think about the docotrs and nurses in the hospitlas who are overworked due to the overcrowded hospitlas right now. i saw something like 10,000 people are in hospitlas there. is Desantis doing anything to help them? maybe he is and i didnt se it? 

Edited by bswanson
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On 7/31/2021 at 1:50 AM, TeamAudra said:


I totally get that, and agree, but the point is there are a lot of people who lecture everyone about masks who don’t appear to pay much attention to their own health. We’ve all seen these people on social media, and regardless of which side of the issue you’re on, you’ve likely been annoyed by some of them. :haha: The mask/vaccine issue turns some people into lunatics. I’m a big proponent of personal responsibility, rather than having to be told what to do. That said, I’m fully vaccinated, and have always followed the mask mandates in my state, and still have to wear one for work in certain situations (and I don’t complain about it). 

👏

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yeah with like the whole mask thing you got crazy people on both sides cause you also have anti maskers yelling at or making fun of people wearing masks. and anti maskers shooting people cause that place required a mask

Edited by bswanson
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29 minutes ago, QueenKalie said:

At least he admitted that he would be a lot sicker if he didn't have the vaccine.


He can’t possibly know that, though. When I had covid, I wasn’t very sick, and I hadn’t been vaccinated yet. He should just say he may have had worse symptoms without the vaccine. He’s an attorney.  He knows words matter. 

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2 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:


He can’t possibly know that, though. When I had covid, I wasn’t very sick, and I hadn’t been vaccinated yet. 

He's probably what 30 years older than you I'm guessing? He's likely in the higher risk group.

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4 minutes ago, QueenKalie said:

He's probably what 30 years older than you I'm guessing? He's likely in the higher risk group.


Again....he should say that he may have had worse symptoms without the vaccine, not that he certainly would. 

Edited by TeamAudra
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well yeah you will still get it but more that likely  minor symptoms, just  like the flu shot you still get the flu but not as bad. he may have tested positive but hopefully the vaccine will keep him out of the hospital. from what doctors and others have said the fully vaccinated that get it so far have mostly only  shown minor symptoms so that's good

Edited by bswanson
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