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29 minutes ago, Drew said:

I love how some were touting Cuomo to replace Biden back during the 2020 race, who isn't up to this task, don't get me wrong; but in hindsight -- wow! It's very satisfying to see someone that's just a complete jerk and bully all-around finally get his. You had these orders he's taken just criticism for imposed by others Governors like Whitmer Newsom, and Murphy though. He's not the only one. 

 

You really think so? 

 

Biden has been nothing but competent since taking office. His decision to respond to Iran's attacks was a lose/lose situation. But outside of that, he's reunited over 500 families at the border, has organized a vaccine distribution plan (that was previously in disarray) that has led to buying enough vaccinations to get every adult vaccinated by June, and currently 100 million vaccinations. And he's passed a bill that is expected to reduce the child poverty rate by 30%, reduces healthcare costs, help schools re-open, and further help with vaccination distribution.

 

I'm farther to the left than Biden, and 80 year old white dudes aren't my first choice ever, but that's what competent governing looks like. 

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I can see the Trump supporters are as delusional as Trump here. Posting a bunch of fake conspiracy theories is pretty pathetic, but Trump knew he could manipulate his voters into this charade.  

I find it hilarious how Trumpsters (and Republicans in general) are just so used to cheating and bullying their way through life, that they simply can't fathom that 75 million Americans voted against

Me waiting for this groundbreaking evidence that has been posted about in this thread for well over a month that's going to win a court case and change everything.

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2 hours ago, mercfan3 said:

 

You really think so? 

 

Biden has been nothing but competent since taking office. His decision to respond to Iran's attacks was a lose/lose situation. But outside of that, he's reunited over 500 families at the border, has organized a vaccine distribution plan (that was previously in disarray) that has led to buying enough vaccinations to get every adult vaccinated by June, and currently 100 million vaccinations. And he's passed a bill that is expected to reduce the child poverty rate by 30%, reduces healthcare costs, help schools re-open, and further help with vaccination distribution.

 

I'm farther to the left than Biden, and 80 year old white dudes aren't my first choice ever, but that's what competent governing looks like. 

You could have Jen Psaki's gig! What's interesting and I think this probably supports your initial point - Harris didn't know about the Iran response until after it had already taken place, which runs counter to the "he's not really in charge" narrative that's out there. In a weird way, that's as big of a story as the actual story. Why do you think that was? I think for a lot of us, we're thinking ...what's going on over there with these people? 

 

I think to take full credit for the vaccine is a little disingenuous but I'm aware of how it works. The incumbent gets the credit for the successes, regardless of the roots of the success. I suppose the optics of the families being reunited are positive, the optics of kids in cages are not. But we're still not discussing the actual immigration policy and what would be best for the country. Based on what I know, I'm not supportive of the Biden position with respect to immigration. We've also glossed over the other items in the rescue plan that have nothing to do with getting help to most Americans. Does that bother you at all? Though, I'm not ignorant to the fact that legislation is made with a meat cleaver and not a scalpel so someone is always going to be miffed about something included that they feel shouldn't be. 

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the vaccine may have strated under Trump, but did he have the same plan of all adults get it by May 1st had he won re-election? we will never know.  also yes there may be other things in the bill that arent for covid  but at least it helps Americans 75% approve of the Plan https://www.businessinsider.com/75-americans-support-bidens-covid-19-bill-despite-gop-outcries-2021-3

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9 minutes ago, bswanson said:

the vaccine may have strated under Trump, but did he have the same plan of all adults get it by May 1st had he won re-election? we will never know.  also yes there may be other things in the bill that arent for covid  but at least it helps Americans 75% approve of the Plan https://www.businessinsider.com/75-americans-support-bidens-covid-19-bill-despite-gop-outcries-2021-3

Previously, it was 70% and last month, about 68% support so it's always had high approval. That doesn't mean everything in it is positive, but I'm glad we can quote polls at each other lol. President Biden is going to receive praise overall for this and has, anyone that puts checks in the hands of people. But that's not all that wound up in this bill and with money just being printed, it's not ~free in the long run. There's a belief among the Obama folks that their stimulus way during the great recession should have been bigger and now we've got something pretty big. 

 

The vaccine rollout in the United States overall has been quite good from what I can see (not the case in my own state based on my experience monitoring the news and working as a contact tracer having these conversations daily), but I was only saying most things are a team effort. Biden will get credit for the vaccine even though Operation Warp Speed started under President Trump. That said, Trump gets to claim credit for a roaring economy until a global pandemic came along and crippled it. The truth is, there's a bit of nuance pertaining to both of these issues. 

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5 hours ago, Drew said:

You could have Jen Psaki's gig! What's interesting and I think this probably supports your initial point - Harris didn't know about the Iran response until after it had already taken place, which runs counter to the "he's not really in charge" narrative that's out there. In a weird way, that's as big of a story as the actual story. Why do you think that was? I think for a lot of us, we're thinking ...what's going on over there with these people? 

 

I think to take full credit for the vaccine is a little disingenuous but I'm aware of how it works. The incumbent gets the credit for the successes, regardless of the roots of the success. I suppose the optics of the families being reunited are positive, the optics of kids in cages are not. But we're still not discussing the actual immigration policy and what would be best for the country. Based on what I know, I'm not supportive of the Biden position with respect to immigration. We've also glossed over the other items in the rescue plan that have nothing to do with getting help to most Americans. Does that bother you at all? Though, I'm not ignorant to the fact that legislation is made with a meat cleaver and not a scalpel so someone is always going to be miffed about something included that they feel shouldn't be. 

 

 You spent the better part of four years rationalizing the behavior of a lunatic, who ended up committing insurrection against the United States...but now you are going to take an overly critical view of Biden. Interesting. 

 

I'm gonna need a source that Harris didn't know about the strikes, as I'm finding nothing about it. Again, interesting that you started coming to conclusions without actual sources. And that would be unusual. Although no one said she was pulling the strings. I do think Biden wants her more focused on Domestic issues - one because of the tie breaker in the senate, and two because she's acutely aware of the realities and infrastructures of some areas in the country that Biden isn't aware of. But I don't think there has been any real news indication that Harris is pulling strings - 

 

1. What exactly should Trump get credit for. Operation warp speed did very little. When Biden stepped into office, Trump hadn't bought enough vaccines for the country and had no distribution plan. States were on their own and forced to compete to get vaccines because Trump refused to do simple things like give an executive order to boost the military supply chain. Heck, he didn't even do the bare minimum and get vaccinated publicly. No, he left Biden with 500,000 dead, no distribution plan, no vaccines, and half the country refusing to wear masks and get vaccinated Credit? LMFAO. 

 

2. The "optics of reuniting families" are you kidding me? That was one of the worst human rights violations that America has committed in the past 25 years, and that's saying something. Trump pulled the United States out of International Human Rights treaties to attempt to avoid consequences for this. We literally ripped families apart who were seeking asylum (a legal form of immigration). We made orphans out of kids, lost a bunch of teenage girls, had zero records of what child belongs to what parents, and kept them in inhumane conditions. He should have been impeached and removed over this. We should have, as a country, been severely sanctioned over this. We would have deserved it. It is a disgusting stain on modern American history. And reuniting families is one of the most important things Biden's team can be working on - outside of Covid - because it's a wrong that we just have to fix. 

 

"Cages are cages" lol..and AOC was wrong for this too. What is actually going on, is that children are crossing the border by themselves. Because of Covid, and because how long it will take to figure out where these children belong, they are being placed in a child friendly facility..with clearly humane conditions. It's a completely different scenario, and I don't exactly know what anyone would expect the Biden administration to do here. Is he supposed to let them roam free around the states? Is he supposed to turn them away at the border? That seems a heck of a lot more inhumane than keeping them at a facility until we can figure out where they belong. 

 

I know, the immigration debate is just a partisan one - but Biden really hasn't made a move either way yet, other than an executive order that just brought human rights back into our immigration policy. Why not see what he tries to do with legislation and real actions before being critical? 

 

3. Out of curiosity, what part of the bill are you talking about? Because  I don't care about the stimulus as much as I care about much of the other parts of the bill. I'll be honest and say I haven't read the full bill, but I have read summaries and every piece seemed to significantly help people. And again, when a bill is projected to decrease child poverty by 30%, that's where the conversation starts and ends. 

 

Again, you are coming off as being very nitpicky. I'm sure we'll all have disagreements with the Biden/Harris administration over the next four years, but he's very clearly been beyond competent. So, "not up to the task" really? Where on earth are you getting that from? 

Edited by mercfan3
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Well, I wouldn't really call him a lunatic. I'm coming across as nitpicky, but the way so many (the media in particular) have blown every single statement or decision out of proportion and essentially tried to sabotage the man from the very beginning is astonishing. He has a massive ego no doubt, one could argue he lost an election in large part because of it. But let's not pretend he ever had a honeymoon period that many presidents do receive. The Senate acquitted him of that charge, which was never legitimate. To say he egged folks on would a better way to phrase it, falling far short of the legal standard of incitement.

 

Not to take it to another place, but I promise its adjacent to this. Free speech is fundamental to the entire experiment we've called America for some time. Politicians, activists, other folks have used charged language on the national mall for how long exactly? We could discuss immigration policy, what the top marginal tax rate ought to be, doesn't really matter a whole lot if we can't speak our minds in the public square, does it? I've fallen out with friends over this hurling words like "fascist" and "seditious" around, but I think if you asked these folks to define what they're talking about and specifically how it fits in this scenario, they would struggle. 

 

With respect to Harris, it was the timeline here at the bottom which cast doubt for me on when she was informed of what was going on. Could be wrong. I was more so just ruminating on what her role is really going to be. She was the person that didn't get particularly far in the Democratic primary and Biden is a pretty old-acting 78 at times. You juxtapose just about anything recent with clips from 2008 or 2012, it's almost a different person. I'm not ageist, I hope to get to that age myself one day, but I won't be leader of the free world. He is at the moment, so many have concerns that have carried through to the present day. 

 

Perhaps it's unrealistic to expect a current administration to share credit with anyone else since that's typically not how it works. There were missteps with regard to how seriously it looked as though the Trump folks publicly took the virus, though to put 500k deaths at his feet solely is pretty tough stuff and I don't think if you're being an honest broker here, you can cast the blame on him. It's difficult if not impossible to defend Trump at every turn because some of his actions haven't been defensible and he did obstruct the transition process, which couldn't have helped what you're referring to with the rollout. The mask thing, yeah he's guilty of not modeling ~good behavior publicly but it's up to each individual to decide what's best for them, their families, etc. But if something has been shown to help even a little bit (and masks are not foolproof and we've received mixed messages from the so-called experts over time), reasonable folks should just go ahead and do so. The shaming and tattle-tailing that we've seen go on just represents the worst of our society. Folks need to mind their own business, take a breath and folks on opposite side should practice responsible behavior. 

 

I'm probably sidestepping #2 because I simply don't view it the same way you appear to as a country's borders and the security is pretty central. It's not safe for these individuals to come and make the journey for a number of reasons. How would you deal with the current wage of folks coming? Whether you describe it as a crisis like many on the right or just a concern which I've heard more moderate folks label it as, what would you tell these people? The children crossing alone is a difficult one to answer. I'd say we just have to do our best to do the right thing, but we cannot allow our system to become overrun. 

 

I'm referring to information put out by Politifact that describes the spending on COVID making up less than 10% of the overall cost, 350 billion for state and local government. Is ALL that related to the pandemic? It doesn't appear that way. I'm just of the very reasonable opinion that there is no free lunch, there are consequences to printing money over the long term and we might well live to see those play out. 

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2 hours ago, bswanson said:

Even if Trump started operation warp speed. it was Biden who was able to make it May 1st for all adults to start getting the vaccine. 

Sure, and according to the statement put out, it does say we're able to do this through the recommendation of the White House COVID-19 Response Team due to the pace people are being vaccinated. They deserve credit for that, no doubt. We know the previous administration's response wasn't absolutely flawless and the public perception contributed heavily to the 2020 loss, but we don't have slap down the predecessor and go -- did absolutely nothing, plus you're complicit in the murder of five hundred thousand people. Objectively, that's not really fair. 

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2 minutes ago, Drew said:

Sure, and according to the statement put out, it does say we're able to do this through the recommendation of the White House COVID-19 Response Team due to the pace people are being vaccinated. They deserve credit for that, no doubt. We know the previous administration's response wasn't absolutely flawless and the public perception contributed heavily to the 2020 loss, but we don't have slap down the predecessor and go -- did absolutely nothing, plus you're complicit in the murder of five hundred thousand people. Objectively, that's not really fair. 

no of course Trump isnt resonible for that. its  virus people will get it. some people wont follow the gudielines no matter how much you tell them 

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On 3/18/2021 at 7:52 PM, bswanson said:

no of course Trump isnt resonible for that. its  virus people will get it. some people wont follow the gudielines no matter how much you tell them 


One of the most interesting and laughable aspects of the pandemic has been seeing how poorly adults handle being told what to do, even if its in the best interest of themselves or others.

Wear a mask? It's my freaking right to not wear a mask, you can't make me! And other such nonsense.

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11 hours ago, ButterflyEffect said:


One of the most interesting and laughable aspects of the pandemic has been seeing how poorly adults handle being told what to do, even if its in the best interest of themselves or others.

Wear a mask? It's my freaking right to not wear a mask, you can't make me! And other such nonsense.

Living in Texas (pretty much the you-cant-tell-me-what-to-do capital of the world), I have shared this frustration.  I guess you can't have it both ways though.  A 60 year old who has lived his/her whole life in the "Land of The Free" is not going take to all of a sudden following government orders.  As a military man who has taken them for a big part of his life, it still frustrates me when people have no sense of anything bigger than themselves though.

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7 hours ago, ATX29 said:

Living in Texas (pretty much the you-cant-tell-me-what-to-do capital of the world), I have shared this frustration.  I guess you can't have it both ways though.  A 60 year old who has lived his/her whole life in the "Land of The Free" is not going take to all of a sudden following government orders.  As a military man who has taken them for a big part of his life, it still frustrates me when people have no sense of anything bigger than themselves though.


Even in Minnesota. High mask usage inner city, and the further you get away it goes down. Suburbs a little less. Outstate, a lot less...they will flat out tell you where you can stick your mask. I have concerns about people getting a false sense of security from the mask, but that’s a different issue entirely. They also made the huge blunder of telling people to not wear masks, saying they aren’t effective, etc., and then totally reversing course. 

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Out walking the dog tonight and see this in a neighbor’s yard. It says, “Trump 2024, The rules have changed” 😐 This is not helpful. 

 

yggBGvK.jpg

Edited by TeamAudra
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16 hours ago, TeamAudra said:


Even in Minnesota. High mask usage inner city, and the further you get away it goes down. Suburbs a little less. Outstate, a lot less...they will flat out tell you where you can stick your mask. I have concerns about people getting a false sense of security from the mask, but that’s a different issue entirely. They also made the huge blunder of telling people to not wear masks, saying they aren’t effective, etc., and then totally reversing course. 

well to be fair at the time the virus was new an they didnt know much about it yet. thats why it changed. at the time they really didnt know how it spread. 

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1 hour ago, bswanson said:

well to be fair at the time the virus was new an they didnt know much about it yet. thats why it changed. at the time they really didnt know how it spread. 


I’m not buying that. It was because of mask shortage. When I sneeze, cough, or speak, the air has to go somewhere, right? It leaks out through the edges of the mask. If I have the virus, and you’re too close to me for too long, the mask probably won’t save you. I think they meant what they said the first time. The mandates just make people feel better, but at the same time, give a false sense of security, so people ignore social distancing, proper mask usage, etc. It hasn’t gone well, and the mixed messages have contributed to that. 

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The effectiveness of masks, when used properly, is widely published in the literature. But go to Wal-Mart and take a look around and see the hordes of people with masks not covering their noses or just being very ill-fitting in general. It should be common knowledge, but then again the first month of the pandemic was spent teaching adults how to wash their hands properly, so maybe common sense isn't that common afterall.

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32 minutes ago, ButterflyEffect said:

The effectiveness of masks, when used properly, is widely published in the literature. But go to Wal-Mart and take a look around and see the hordes of people with masks not covering their noses or just being very ill-fitting in general. It should be common knowledge, but then again the first month of the pandemic was spent teaching adults how to wash their hands properly, so maybe common sense isn't that common afterall.

Yeah I shouldn't be surprised by all the stupidity in the world I should just accept it at this point but for some reason it always catches me by surprise still lol. 

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17 hours ago, QueenKalie said:

Yeah I shouldn't be surprised by all the stupidity in the world I should just accept it at this point but for some reason it always catches me by surprise still lol. 

yeah. sure masks dont prevent it 100% cause people have tkaing all the percautions and still tested positive, but they do help 

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On 3/20/2021 at 11:11 PM, TeamAudra said:

Out walking the dog tonight and see this in a neighbor’s yard. It says, “Trump 2024, The rules have changed” 😐 This is not helpful. 

 

yggBGvK.jpg

At this time, I'm starting to think mental illness for a lot of these people

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2 hours ago, sneaky said:

At this time, I'm starting to think mental illness for a lot of these people

I think flying a flag for your candidate alongside the flag of your country should be discouraged. Has always been far too cult of personality for me.

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People of many stripes now amplify their politics to hysterical extents. I can think of several people in my own orbit who are suddenly all politics all the time, and they weren't like this five years ago. It's not a sign of a healthy society, imo.

 

Mind you, even non-crazy lawn signs and bumper stickers are a bit much for me. I don't get why you'd voluntarily put up an ad for any politician on your personal property.

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7 hours ago, RWG said:

People of many stripes now amplify their politics to hysterical extents. I can think of several people in my own orbit who are suddenly all politics all the time, and they weren't like this five years ago. It's not a sign of a healthy society, imo.

 

Mind you, even non-crazy lawn signs and bumper stickers are a bit much for me. I don't get why you'd voluntarily put up an ad for any politician on your personal property.

Phil Leotardo was such a jerk. #offtopic 

 

But I agree with everything you've said here. 😇

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15 hours ago, Drew said:

Phil Leotardo was such a jerk. #offtopic 

 

But I agree with everything you've said here. 😇

 

Frank Vincent is a legend though. Phil was one of the most evil people on the show and imo its best villain. He maybe wasn't as pathological as Richie Aprile or Ralph, but funnier and more unpredictable. If you weren't aware, he did 20 years in the can.

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10 hours ago, RWG said:

 

Frank Vincent is a legend though. Phil was one of the most evil people on the show and imo its best villain. He maybe wasn't as pathological as Richie Aprile or Ralph, but funnier and more unpredictable. If you weren't aware, he did 20 years in the can.

Very true. I usually love the villains because they're oftentimes the most interesting characters, far more so than the ~protagonists. 

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