COVID-19 Discussion 😷

[FunkyFrankie]

12 hours ago, RWG said:

^ You want to see something more sustained, but Ontario's 7-day average has at least decreased four days in a row. It doesn't feel like the new "lockdown" parametres will change much themselves, but the fanfare around them might make people a bit more cautious I guess.

 

Quebec has an 8pm - 5am lockdown with $1,000 to $6,000 fines now. That is a big ask.

 

What?

 

yeah I think that’s dumb, not everything happens at night 

[TeamAudra]

12 hours ago, RWG said:

^ You want to see something more sustained, but Ontario's 7-day average has at least decreased four days in a row. It doesn't feel like the new "lockdown" parametres will change much themselves, but the fanfare around them might make people a bit more cautious I guess.

 

Quebec has an 8pm - 5am lockdown with $1,000 to $6,000 fines now. That is a big ask.

 

What about people who have jobs that require them to be out between 8 PM - 5 AM? 

[RWG]

4 hours ago, FunkyFrankie said:

What?

 

yeah I think that’s dumb, not everything happens at night 

 

The new stay-at-home order in Ontario says stay at home except for essentials, which is what people should have already been doing. They aren't closing sites most responsible for the spread of reported cases. For example, "non-essential" construction sites must close. Here is the list of essential ones. It's pretty much every type of construction site. Religious ceremonies and small outdoor gatherings are still allowed. It just doesn't feel like anything new.

 

4 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

What about people who have jobs that require them to be out between 8 PM - 5 AM? 

 

Their employers have to fill out a form for them to have with them when they're out.

 

Curfew in Quebec

Edited January 17, 2021 by RWG

[TeamAudra]

17 minutes ago, RWG said:

 

The new stay-at-home order in Ontario says stay at home except for essentials, which is what people should have already been doing. They aren't closing sites most responsible for the spread of reported cases. For example, "non-essential" construction sites must close. Here is the list of essential ones. It's pretty much every type of construction site. Religious ceremonies and small outdoor gatherings are still allowed. It just doesn't feel like anything new.

 

 

Their employers have to fill out a form for them to have with them when they're out.

 

Curfew in Quebec

I see. I had to have paperwork with me too, when we had the stay at home order, but I doubt anyone would have asked for it. It was technically enforceable by law, but it didn’t really have any teeth. 
 

So...up until 8 PM, residents of Quebec are free to spread the virus around, and at night, they’ll be locked in the house so they can make sure to spread it to their families. Makes sense! It sounds like politicians trying to cover their asses by making it appear as though they’re doing something. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by TeamAudra

[ButterflyEffect]

31 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:

I see. I had to have paperwork with me too, when we had the stay at home order, but I doubt anyone would have asked for it. It was technically enforceable by law, but it didn’t really have any teeth. 
 

So...up until 8 PM, residents of Quebec are free to spread the virus around, and at night, they’ll be locked in the house so they can make sure to spread it to their families. Makes sense! It sounds like politicians trying to cover their asses by making it appear as though they’re doing something. 

 

 

No one has ever claimed that Quebec (or its Provincial government) to be logical or reasonable. Nothing new.

[RWG]

I'm no expert, but my initial thought is that a curfew would have a lot of unintended consequences. The smaller window to do essential errands is going to cause crowding. Most people doing their office jobs from home will all have to rush out to the grocery in the 5pm-8pm window. And then there's policing. If the government where I lived wanted to do a curfew, I'd want to see a lot of evidence that it will significantly improve the situation. 

[FunkyFrankie]

3 hours ago, RWG said:

 

The new stay-at-home order in Ontario says stay at home except for essentials, which is what people should have already been doing. They aren't closing sites most responsible for the spread of reported cases. For example, "non-essential" construction sites must close. Here is the list of essential ones. It's pretty much every type of construction site. Religious ceremonies and small outdoor gatherings are still allowed. It just doesn't feel like anything new.

 

 

Their employers have to fill out a form for them to have with them when they're out.

 

Curfew in Quebec

If Ontario had a curfew, you would be allowed to go out at night for work.

 

 

Apparently the new  virus is more contagious 

[TeamAudra]

This, on the Quebec curfew...

 

• a person who must go out so that his dog can do its business, within a radius of no more than one kilometre from the person’s place of residence or temporary residence;

Who cares how far away they are from their residence. They are outside! And probably by themselves....

[RWG]

Some of these variants are starting to sound quite concerning. Researchers are worried the strain from Brazil might be completely circumnavigating antibodies.

 

Why Scientists Are Very Worried About The Variant From Brazil

 

Quote

While the variant from the U.K. took about three months to dominate the outbreak in England, P.1 took only about a month to dominate the outbreak in Manaus. In addition, Manaus had already been hit extremely hard by the virus in April. One study estimated that the population should have reached herd immunity and the virus shouldn't be able to spread easily in the community. So why would the city see an even bigger surge 10 months later? Could P.1 be evading the antibodies made against the previous version of the virus, making reinfections easier? Could it just be significantly more contagious? Could both be true?

 

Let's be optimistic and assume that this variant is just very contagious, or that vaccine manufacturers will be able to counter it with a booster or something. What curve ball could the virus throw next, as it continues to circulate in developing nations that won't see any vaccines until at least 2022. I doubt the virus is just going to stop mutating. Offramps from this pandemic aren't available on a country-by-country basis, unless we want to be a world where no one can move across borders at all.

Edited January 30, 2021 by RWG

[Guest]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:06 PM, TeamAudra said:

This, on the Quebec curfew...

 

• a person who must go out so that his dog can do its business, within a radius of no more than one kilometre from the person’s place of residence or temporary residence;

Who cares how far away they are from their residence. They are outside! And probably by themselves....

If you give the government an inch, they'll try to take a mile. That's why some of the restrictions bothered me from the start. In what universe has "safety" ever been number one? Is everyone aware that we're not getting out of this alive? Were safety first, no one would drive, yet we've decided as a society that a certain number of motor vehicle fatalities annually is a trade off to being able to travel where we want to. 

[TeamAudra]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

If you give the government an inch, they'll try to take a mile. That's why some of the restrictions bothered me from the start. In what universe has "safety" ever been number one? Is everyone aware that we're not getting out of this alive? Were safety first, no one would drive, yet we've decided as a society that a certain number of motor vehicle fatalities annually is a trade off to being able to travel where we want to. 

Yeah, I agree. At least in my state, they suggested getting exercise by going for long walks, going to parks, and doing stuff outside. But, in Quebec, you can be arrested and fined for being too far from your house, while walking a dog. That’s ridiculous! They clearly haven’t factored mental health into their policies. 
 

I feel like some things could have been handled better in my state, starting with securing nursing homes, but I don’t feel like they’ve overreached over the last several months. People have bills to pay, and so does the state. Given what I see around the country, I’ll give my Democrat Governor a solid B for his handling of the pandemic, even though he got off to a rocky start. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by TeamAudra

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

Yeah, I agree. At least in my state, they suggested getting exercise by going for long walks, going to parks, and doing stuff outside. But, in Quebec, you can be arrested and fined for being too far from your house, while walking a dog. That’s ridiculous! They clearly haven’t factored mental health into their policies. 
 

I feel like some things could have been handled better in my state, starting with securing nursing homes, but I don’t feel like they’ve overreached over the last several months. People have bills to pay, and so does the state. Given what I see around the country, I’ll give my Democrat Governor a solid B for his handling of the pandemic, even though he got off to a rocky start. 

They haven't factored mental health in or how folks feel economically. We didn't HAVE to destroy our economy, impose all these restrictions over a virus that has such a low mortality rate and impacts mostly the elderly disproportionately. Sigh. Any death is horrible, but I'm a new graduate and it's almost been a year and my prospects are still so uncertain. There's many like me and we're angry. 

[sneaky]

To play devil's advocate I do worry about kids in school. We dont know what the long term ramifications of the virus are. Remember the case of the basketball player that got covid, returned and collapsed on the court  We adults have a choice on how much we want to risk and they dont.

 

I'm excited that we're hosting the super bowl with 30% capacity. We'll see if this is a trainwreck lol

[TeamAudra]

2 hours ago, sneaky said:

To play devil's advocate I do worry about kids in school. We dont know what the long term ramifications of the virus are. Remember the case of the basketball player that got covid, returned and collapsed on the court  We adults have a choice on how much we want to risk and they dont.

 

I'm excited that we're hosting the super bowl with 30% capacity. We'll see if this is a trainwreck lol

Yawn. 

[anticoronaperson]

I just found out about this today. So basically this new study shows that COVID-19 could hide in your brain and reactivate down the road. But this explains it in way more detail.

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210125/covid-19-may-hide-in-brains-and-cause-relapses#:~:text=Jan. 25%2C 2021 -- The,published in the journal Viruses.
COVID-19 May Hide in Brains and Cause Relapses

 

Jan. 25, 2021 -- The coronavirus may remain in people’s brains after infection and trigger relapses in patients who thought they had recovered, according to a new study published in the journal Viruses.

 

In the study, mice that were infected with the virus through their nasal passages developed severe illnesses due to brain infections, even after the virus left their lungs. In humans, this could explain why patients who appear to be over COVID-19 sometimes relapse and die.

 

“The brain is one of the regions where virus likes to hide,” Mukesh Kumar, the lead study author and a researcher at Georgia State University, said in a statement.

 

“That’s why we’re seeing severe disease and all these multiple symptoms like heart disease, stroke and all these long-haulers with loss of smell, loss of taste,” he said. “All of this has to do with the brain rather than with the lungs.”

 

The research team found that the virus was located in the brains of mice at a level that was 1,000 times higher than in any other part of the body. Viral loads in the lungs began to drop after three days but remained high in the brain on the fifth and sixth days after infection, which is when the disease became more severe.

 

“Once it infects the brain, it can affect anything because the brain is controlling your lungs, the heart, everything,” he said. “The brain is a very sensitive organ. It’s the central processor for everything.”

 

COVID-19 survivors whose infections reached their brain could also become susceptible to other serious medical conditions in the future, such as Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis, cognitive decline and autoimmune diseases, he added.

 

“It’s scary,” he said. “A lot of people think they got COVID and they recovered and now they’re out of the woods. Now I feel like that’s never going to be true. You may never be out of the woods.”

[sneaky]

8 hours ago, anticoronaperson said:

I just found out about this today. So basically this new study shows that COVID-19 could hide in your brain and reactivate down the road. But this explains it in way more detail.

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210125/covid-19-may-hide-in-brains-and-cause-relapses#:~:text=Jan. 25%2C 2021 -- The,published in the journal Viruses.
COVID-19 May Hide in Brains and Cause Relapses

 

Jan. 25, 2021 -- The coronavirus may remain in people’s brains after infection and trigger relapses in patients who thought they had recovered, according to a new study published in the journal Viruses.

 

In the study, mice that were infected with the virus through their nasal passages developed severe illnesses due to brain infections, even after the virus left their lungs. In humans, this could explain why patients who appear to be over COVID-19 sometimes relapse and die.

 

“The brain is one of the regions where virus likes to hide,” Mukesh Kumar, the lead study author and a researcher at Georgia State University, said in a statement.

 

“That’s why we’re seeing severe disease and all these multiple symptoms like heart disease, stroke and all these long-haulers with loss of smell, loss of taste,” he said. “All of this has to do with the brain rather than with the lungs.”

 

The research team found that the virus was located in the brains of mice at a level that was 1,000 times higher than in any other part of the body. Viral loads in the lungs began to drop after three days but remained high in the brain on the fifth and sixth days after infection, which is when the disease became more severe.

 

“Once it infects the brain, it can affect anything because the brain is controlling your lungs, the heart, everything,” he said. “The brain is a very sensitive organ. It’s the central processor for everything.”

 

COVID-19 survivors whose infections reached their brain could also become susceptible to other serious medical conditions in the future, such as Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis, cognitive decline and autoimmune diseases, he added.

 

“It’s scary,” he said. “A lot of people think they got COVID and they recovered and now they’re out of the woods. Now I feel like that’s never going to be true. You may never be out of the woods.”

That's the thing people dont get. Im not for lockdowns or anything like that but this isnt just a cold. Its an actual disease with possible long term reprecussions

 

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html

 

https://www.geisinger.org/health-and-wellness/wellness-articles/2020/12/08/17/12/i-have-post-covid-myocarditis

[anticoronaperson]

9 minutes ago, sneaky said:

That's the thing people dont get. Im not for lockdowns or anything like that but this isnt just a cold. Its an actual disease with possible long term reprecussions

 

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html

 

https://www.geisinger.org/health-and-wellness/wellness-articles/2020/12/08/17/12/i-have-post-covid-myocarditis

Yeah, but this study is very recent. I didn't even know that it was possible for COVID-19 to stay hidden in your brain. Like how does that even work?

[Guest]

16 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

Yawn. 

It is concerning as there's plenty of things related to the virus we don't know, but still. Is it worth as a society doing what we've done? I'd argue no. 

[TeamAudra]

8 minutes ago, Drew said:

It is concerning as there's plenty of things related to the virus we don't know, but still. Is it worth as a society doing what we've done? I'd argue no. 

Everything we do has some element of risk. I don’t have a job that enables me to work 100% from home. I’m accepting of the risks, took all of the recommended precautions, and caught it anyway. Oh, well. If the virus is living somewhere in my brain, as is suggested above, I guess I’ll just have to deal with it, although I’m not going to lose sleep over that one. 

[totes4totes]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:03 AM, Drew said:

If you give the government an inch, they'll try to take a mile. That's why some of the restrictions bothered me from the start. In what universe has "safety" ever been number one? Is everyone aware that we're not getting out of this alive? Were safety first, no one would drive, yet we've decided as a society that a certain number of motor vehicle fatalities annually is a trade off to being able to travel where we want to. 

We’ve already discussed this freaking idiotic strawman half-@sided comparison. 
 

On 1/28/2021 at 12:41 PM, Drew said:

They haven't factored mental health in or how folks feel economically. We didn't HAVE to destroy our economy, impose all these restrictions over a virus that has such a low mortality rate and impacts mostly the elderly disproportionately. Sigh. Any death is horrible, but I'm a new graduate and it's almost been a year and my prospects are still so uncertain. There's many like me and we're angry. 

400,000 people in the US have died. Hospitals have been ravaged. There are major cities with no ICU beds. That’s not just beds for COVID patients but for anybody who may need to get a spot there. But okay. The economy sure. It’s despicable that the US never enacted a nationwide stay-at-home order supplemented by monthly payments to make sure the economy could stay afloat, that businesses could stay afloat, but more importantly so we never had to face the human toll of 400,000 people dead. 
 

My family is from Yuma, AZ. 1 in 6 people in the county have had or currently have COVID. There is one major hospital that serves the county. They are so overwhelmed they have to airlift patients to Phoenix. A huge chunk of the population in winter months is responsible for the leafy vegetables grown in the US. That’s near 40,000 people who need everybody else to stay the freak at home to mitigate spread because they can’t afford to miss work and more importantly they can’t afford to stay home when sick. Another huge chunk are snow birds. There’s a huge elderly population and they can’t vaccinate them all let alone all the essential workers like teachers. My aunt is a teacher there. I call her and every week one of her co-workers has come down with COVID. Or she tells me about a friend who’s died of COVID. Or children who can’t go to school because they or their family has contracted COVID. These are people not elderly. That are still working age. I’ve had people under 60 in my family die of COVID. We still don’t know the long-term effects of the disease. 

 

Friends on IDF have had COVID that have knocked them out for weeks. 

But sure. The economy. Something that could have been helped by a nationwide rent freeze. Not just for people but for businesses. By providing UBI to citizens to get them through a pandemic. 

[*Chris]

1 hour ago, totes4totes said:

My family is from Yuma, AZ. 1 in 6 people in the county have had or currently have COVID. There is one major hospital that serves the county.

 

This!

Right now, the rural area that I grew up in is having an outbreak, despite being one of the provinces in the country that have done one of the better job in handling the pandemic - the amount of cases per 100,000 is on par with bigger city like Montreal and Toronto.  And in the area, there's 3 hospitals but only 1 that operate at full capacity and there's only 11 ICU bed which is causing a stress on the saff at the hospital - my sister is a nurse at said hospital. 

I think it's important to realize that not every area have the capability and capacity in their hospital to deal with the effect of this virus if its free for all.  So I am all for the restrictions and whatsnot that are being imposed especially as someone who is from a province who does not have the manpower in the health care field like bigger cities, on top of having one of the most elderly population in the country which if all of them catch COVID it could cause a bigger strain on the said healthcare which has been the message our public health and government has been trying to promote here since day 1. 
 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

Everything we do has some element of risk. I don’t have a job that enables me to work 100% from home. I’m accepting of the risks, took all of the recommended precautions, and caught it anyway. Oh, well. If the virus is living somewhere in my brain, as is suggested above, I guess I’ll just have to deal with it, although I’m not going to lose sleep over that one. 

I've spoken with multiple folks at work who have the exact same story and they're incredibly upset, considering they did take all the precautions the "experts" recommended. No one is saying they don't help in that they're better than doing nothing. I often wonder how many of us have already contracted it and didn't even know. 

10 hours ago, totes4totes said:

We’ve already discussed this freaking idiotic strawman half-@sided comparison. 
 

400,000 people in the US have died. Hospitals have been ravaged. There are major cities with no ICU beds. That’s not just beds for COVID patients but for anybody who may need to get a spot there. But okay. The economy sure. It’s despicable that the US never enacted a nationwide stay-at-home order supplemented by monthly payments to make sure the economy could stay afloat, that businesses could stay afloat, but more importantly so we never had to face the human toll of 400,000 people dead. 
 

My family is from Yuma, AZ. 1 in 6 people in the county have had or currently have COVID. There is one major hospital that serves the county. They are so overwhelmed they have to airlift patients to Phoenix. A huge chunk of the population in winter months is responsible for the leafy vegetables grown in the US. That’s near 40,000 people who need everybody else to stay the freak at home to mitigate spread because they can’t afford to miss work and more importantly they can’t afford to stay home when sick. Another huge chunk are snow birds. There’s a huge elderly population and they can’t vaccinate them all let alone all the essential workers like teachers. My aunt is a teacher there. I call her and every week one of her co-workers has come down with COVID. Or she tells me about a friend who’s died of COVID. Or children who can’t go to school because they or their family has contracted COVID. These are people not elderly. That are still working age. I’ve had people under 60 in my family die of COVID. We still don’t know the long-term effects of the disease. 

 

Friends on IDF have had COVID that have knocked them out for weeks. 

But sure. The economy. Something that could have been helped by a nationwide rent freeze. Not just for people but for businesses. By providing UBI to citizens to get them through a pandemic. 

I understand it's a bit of an emotional argument and I'm sure there's no room for that in a thread with tens of dozens of anti-Trump diatribes based largely on emotion, but I don't think you'd deny the virus has impacted the economy (job prospects, resulted in many losing their jobs, business owners losing everything) and heavily contributed to deterioration of mental health. But we're not allowed to speak about that because we come across as whiners. Cable news outlets practically get off on the death ticker and uttering the words "grim milestone" on a daily basis, but by and large, I've adhered to all the guidelines and done my part. I also spend my days contacting others in an attempt to guide them through their infectious period and get back to what life nowadays. I think that entitles me to point out the very real costs people, including myself have paid. If your point is, is it as bad as dying? I'd argue no, but it does remind me of early on when gay rights was a hot button issue and my father would say essentially - lighten up! You could be overseas getting thrown off buildings. I get that one is more extreme and horrendous than the other. It's still no way to live your life, especially for those that don't have much time left and those trying to begin a life and a career. 

[TeamAudra]

I understand the passion on both sides of the argument, but it’s not a black and white issue. “Let it Rip” is not a viable solution, but they’re not going to lock everyone in their homes for weeks. It doesn’t work anyway. Families would just keep infecting eachother in their homes, as would “essential” workers, who would then bring it home to their families. Furthermore, at the conclusion of the lockdown, we would just have more outbreaks. Herd immunity appears to be the only way to beat it, once and for all. It sure as hell isn’t mask mandates. 
 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by TeamAudra

[sneaky]

33 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:

I understand the passion on both sides of the argument, but it’s not a black and white issue. “Let it Rip” is not a viable solution, but they’re not going to lock everyone in their homes for weeks. It doesn’t work anyway. Families would just keep infecting eachother in their homes, as would. “essential” workers, who would then bring it home to their families. Furthermore, at the conclusion of the lockdown, we would just have more outbreaks. Herd immunity appears to be the only way to beat it, once and for all. It sure as hell isn’t mask mandates. 
 

 

 

I'd rather just get everyone vaccinated asap. Problem is getting everything organized to do so We dont want every vulnerable person to get it because deaths will sky rocket.

[TeamAudra]

41 minutes ago, sneaky said:

I'd rather just get everyone vaccinated asap. Problem is getting everything organized to do so We dont want every vulnerable person to get it because deaths will sky rocket.

Yep, that’s part of achieving herd immunity.