COVID-19 Discussion 😷

[ButterflyEffect]

9 hours ago, mercfan3 said:

 

The Republican/Democrat thing was based off of what Sneaky said. It certainly has been obvious that coastal (traditionally blue) states have been hit hardest..and it has also been true that Republican Governors have been more reluctant to put in strict measures. My point was only that a Republican Governor in Mass is more likely to follow the behavior of the Democratic Governors around him. 

 

And that Mass has a...tricky situation. Unlike NYC, where there is one huge city, that peaked at the same time..and a majority of the rest of the state is less populated, Mass has two huge cities..in a small state. It's a dumpster fire. 

 

There were quite a few things he did that could have been potentially problematic. 

 

It's interesting to watch the science in this happen in real time. There are some estimates now that people can remain contagious for up to 40 days. My friend and her daughter are just getting over the virus - eight weeks later. 

 

Personally, I think when it's all said and done, population density is going to be the key indicator for how bad places were hit - as opposed to things like population age. But it's tough to say until it all plays out and we learn more. 

 

It'll also be interesting to look at second wave. Are states who didn't get hit this time around, going to get nailed during the second wave..after a bunch of rural hospitals close. Or will the lack of population density save them again? Will MA/CT/NYC/NJ/RI hard hit prevent a second wave given herd immunity - or will the measures taken to try and preserve life actually hurt us again, because not enough people actually caught it - and the population density hasn't changed. 

 

Just hoping I don't live through another pandemic...

Bingo. It shouldn't come to no surprise that places like New York and the surrounding NYC metro area have been hit real hard, people are essentially on top of one another there. Even outside is a higher risk; in most places the risk for transmission from person to person while outside is minimal, but in densely populated areas you're still practically rubbing shoulders with people while walking down the street or taking the subway. Compare that to say Minnesota where Audra is from. Minneapolis is a large city, but nothing compared to NYC. 

[ButterflyEffect]

My province is moving ahead with its plan to re-open, starting on May 11th. They will be implementing a 5-stage system which gradually further lifts restrictions. Looks like they will hold at each level for 28 days and monitor cases, and will revert back if things start getting out of hand again. We've been lucky though, there have only been 3 new cases in the past 2'ish weeks. After an initial major spike in cases last month we were able to successfully flatten the curve.

The health authority does acknowledge that there will be a second wave. Not sure what the plan will be when it comes (likely in the fall months), but they are planning for this to be about a 2 year battle.

[mercfan3]

12 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

This is the main problem in MN. Long term care facilities are getting ravaged. It’s still happening.  22 of 24 deaths reported today were from long term care facilities. Don’t they f-cking test the employees? I wonder if we’d hear more about it if we had a Republican Governor ?

 

Also, it’s difficult to justify closing the economy to a lot of people when we’ve had only 76 deaths outside of these facilities. We don’t even really have a “lockdown” like California or Michigan. “Stay at home” basically means work from home, assuming you still have a job. Some people do social distancing and some (a lot) don’t. Plus, a lot of stores are open, and packed all the time. 

 

——-
 

MINNESOTA -State health experts respond to the high amount of deaths in long-term care facilities.

295 of the 371 total deaths, or 79%, come from long-term care centers....

 

https://www.kvrr.com/2020/05/01/health-experts-discuss-long-term-care-deaths-79-of-all-mn-coronavirus-fatalities/

 

 

 

Once it gets in a long term care facility..that's it. And with most of the population being carriers..it's going to get into longterm care facilities. You don't get a test unless you are showing signs..and the tests have up to a 40% false negative result. Absolutely no way to know if a carrier is a carrier..

 

My grandmother has it, and is in one. 22 staff and 35 patients at the place have it/have had it..and counting. 

[RWG]

People who continued travelling into March, then returned during a full-blown pandemic and immediately rushed to long-term care homes to visit relatives, had a devastating effect on those homes. You had to expect people would keep leaving for vacation if the government was saying it's ok, I guess.

 

If we're taking inventory for next time, the handling of people re-entering their home countries needs to be different.

[Guest]

How is everyone holding up? I'll admit it, I'm not doing well. I feel like I can't really tolerate this too much longer, particularly the not working part. 

[psterina]

So … WHY, did the media go with Gates & Fauci's info, instead of the Surgeon General?

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by psterina

[psterina]

And then … there's THIS    

 

Coronavirus researcher, with "new findings" found shot to death

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/coronavirus-researcher-on-verge-of-significant-findings-found-shot-to-death-officials-say/ar-BB13GNBd?ocid=spartanntp

[ATX29]

Texas has already opened restaurants and retail.  Friday we will take more steps with salons. Barbershops and high school graduations.  Are we leading the way or making a grave mistake?  I honestly don't know.

[psterina]

14 hours ago, ATX29 said:

Texas has already opened restaurants and retail.  Friday we will take more steps with salons. Barbershops and high school graduations.  Are we leading the way or making a grave mistake?  I honestly don't know.

 

Well … and then, you have to count on the media, reporting the correct #'s.  Sunday, the amount of cases reporting in the U.S. was 66,385, but the CDC brought it down to 37,308, due to other causes, of death being counted as COVI-19, and the 3's being corrected. But ... The media, is STILL not reporting on the corrected #'s

[ButterflyEffect]

4 hours ago, psterina said:

 

Well … and then, you have to count on the media, reporting the correct #'s.  Sunday, the amount of cases reporting in the U.S. was 66,385, but the CDC brought it down to 37,308, due to other causes, of death being counted as COVI-19, and the 3's being corrected. But ... The media, is STILL not reporting on the corrected #'s

Because it's not true.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/cdc-hasnt-reduced-covid-19-death-toll/

You sure you're not a right wing conspiracy theory nut? You certainly sound like one.

[psterina]

20 hours ago, ButterflyEffect said:

Because it's not true.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/cdc-hasnt-reduced-covid-19-death-toll/

You sure you're not a right wing conspiracy theory nut? You certainly sound like one.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm          

 

You were saying?    

Edited May 8, 2020 by psterina

[psterina]

20 hours ago, ButterflyEffect said:

Because it's not true.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/cdc-hasnt-reduced-covid-19-death-toll/

You sure you're not a right wing conspiracy theory nut? You certainly sound like one.

 

 

Maybe you shouldn't rely on either Factcheck or Snopes to get your "truth" from.  Just saying …. 

 

https://www.npr.org/2012/01/10/144974110/political-fact-checking-under-fire

 

Also, did you know that 6 Corporations, own all of the Main Media?  And …. that people high up in the pharmaceutical Industry, sit on their boards? No?  I didn't think so.   It doesn't take much, to look into things

[ButterflyEffect]

2 hours ago, psterina said:

 

 

Maybe you shouldn't rely on either Factcheck or Snopes to get your "truth" from.  Just saying …. 

 

https://www.npr.org/2012/01/10/144974110/political-fact-checking-under-fire

 

Also, did you know that 6 Corporations, own all of the Main Media?  And …. that people high up in the pharmaceutical Industry, sit on their boards? No?  I didn't think so.   It doesn't take much, to look into things

As opposed to yourself who has posted countless, useless Youtube videos? Don't get your "truth" from biased sources on god damn YOUTUBE of all things. You people who think you're so woke because you listen to "alternate, edgy opinions" make me sick. Why don't you just get it over with, vote Trump next election, and join the rebel far right who cries fake news over everything they don't like. Doesn't take much to look into things.....yet you've clearly not looked into anything much of worth 

The CDC link you posted states EXACTLY WHAT I said, by the way. So if you're trying to prove my point, thank you very much for doing so. You can easily use the Wayback Machine to look at old revisions of websites. There was NO DROP in the data. Two people compared two different totals on the CDC website and thought they stumbled across the next great Pizzagate since their lack of reading abilities kept them from comprehending the 1-2 week delay explanation right below the table itself.

Take a look if you truly want to know. Two Wayback snapshots that are within 20 minutes of one another, showing two completely different data sets, on April 30th (with data from the 29th):
https://web.archive.org/web/20200430055237/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20200430053621/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

Where's this huge drop??? It. Doesn't. Exist.

Edited May 8, 2020 by ButterflyEffect

[mercfan3]

Again..I honestly think in America (and perhaps in general) the political spectrum isn't so much a spectrum, but a circle. 

[psterina]

9 hours ago, ButterflyEffect said:

As opposed to yourself who has posted countless, useless Youtube videos? Don't get your "truth" from biased sources on god damn YOUTUBE of all things. You people who think you're so woke because you listen to "alternate, edgy opinions" make me sick. Why don't you just get it over with, vote Trump next election, and join the rebel far right who cries fake news over everything they don't like. Doesn't take much to look into things.....yet you've clearly not looked into anything much of worth 

The CDC link you posted states EXACTLY WHAT I said, by the way. So if you're trying to prove my point, thank you very much for doing so. You can easily use the Wayback Machine to look at old revisions of websites. There was NO DROP in the data. Two people compared two different totals on the CDC website and thought they stumbled across the next great Pizzagate since their lack of reading abilities kept them from comprehending the 1-2 week delay explanation right below the table itself.

Take a look if you truly want to know. Two Wayback snapshots that are within 20 minutes of one another, showing two completely different data sets, on April 30th (with data from the 29th):
https://web.archive.org/web/20200430055237/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20200430053621/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

Where's this huge drop??? It. Doesn't. Exist.

 

Do you know, who coined the term "Conspiracy Theory"?  The CIA. They did it, to discourage people from questioning the narrative of JFK's assassination. They did it to put into question peoples validity. To ridicule them. To silence them. 

Well …  Here is another "useless" video, regarding H,R. Bill 6666  (yes … that is the congressional bill #) https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6666/text?r=2&s=1 .  House resolution May 1 #6666 COV-19 trace Act To allow individuals to COME TO YOUR house AND Take you OUT of your home TAKE your children .. AND put you into QUARANTINE

I will post info. And people, can decide, for themselves, whether they want to check it out or not. I would highly recommend checking THIS out, regarding H.R. Bill 6666. And if you do, make sure to read the comments below.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by psterina

[sneaky]

12 hours ago, mercfan3 said:

Again..I honestly think in America (and perhaps in general) the political spectrum isn't so much a spectrum, but a circle. 

Yes but that is the fault of the Democrats. The Democrats constantly want to try to work with Republicans and Libertarians when the reverse is almost never true. The result is that nowadays the only differences between mainstream Republicans and mainstream Democrats is the right to an abortion and ever so slightly being better on enviornmental protections. So someone like Bush is more or less interchangable with someone like Obama

[mercfan3]

1 hour ago, sneaky said:

Yes but that is the fault of the Democrats. The Democrats constantly want to try to work with Republicans and Libertarians when the reverse is almost never true. The result is that nowadays the only differences between mainstream Republicans and mainstream Democrats is the right to an abortion and ever so slightly being better on enviornmental protections. So someone like Bush is more or less interchangable with someone like Obama

 

Only if you educate yourself through youtube, inforwars, the young turks and youtube - and add a significant lack of understanding about our political system.  

 

The idea that the political policies and actions of Obama and Bush are interchangeable are laughable. (Although, to be fair..both took pandemics seriously..) The current viral political propaganda circling the internet is a perfect example. The "far left" is criticizing Joe Biden for his "war like tendencies" because of video where he talks about military action in Serbia. He was trying to prevent a genocide - but the "far left" fails to distinguish between "war hawk" and "preventing a genocide." At best, it's an ignorant failure to distinguish nuance. At worst, it's gaslighting. 

 

What we repeatedly see, is the far left and the far right coming together on issues..likely rooted in the same flaws. We have far right protesters at the capitals of states (interestingly, in states with women governors..the protesters are angry at governors..in states with male governors but female health department leaders..protesters are angry at the health department leaders)..and far left protesters citing conspiracy theories...likely because they don't want to have to get a vaccine. It's a failure to believe science. 

 

A fear of globalism - rooted in xenophobia. In the far right, we see it in the anti-immigration policies. On the far left - we see it in economic and international policies. The criticism on the far left over the TPP (likely from people who hadn't read it), was hilarious. (Extra hilarious, it would have gone a long way in helping states gain access to medical supplies). Both sides want America to be an isolationist country. That just isn't feasible or realistic. 

 

And it's a belief in anti-establishment rhetoric traced with significant racism and sexism..because America isn't really doing that great. The idea that Obama and Clinton were the same as their fellow Republicans? Ridiculous. Clinton's economic policies led to our greatest economic growth during peacetime. He left office with a surplus. He invested in technology. And him and Hillary tried their damndest to get us Universal Healthcare, and when that failed..was still able to get a healthcare system for poor children. We thanked him by forgetting to vote during midterms - creating a gridlock for any social program that he would have liked to put in place. Obama recovered the economy, was a leader in developing an environmental treaty that took the necessary steps to getting China signed on, and created a national healthcare system. We thanked him by forgetting to vote in midterms, creating a gridlock that prevented any national social program - or anything really - from being enacted. And then begin the narrative that he was actually a failure. Asking why he didn't fix everything - like our actions had nothing to do with it. 

 

The "far left" refuses to actually look at our political infrastructure and facts - just as the far right does. And instead of actually looking at laws and policies in the context of the time, the cancel culture and black and white mentality takes over. And when it all comes down to it..the far left and the far right are no different from each other. The racism on the left doesn't show up in obvious hate crimes, in the way it does on the far right.  It shows up in the insistence that black Americans don't know what is best for them. It shows up in the suggestion for decreasing the political power of the Black community in the Democratic process. It shows up in the criticism of Barack Obama.  The sexism on the left shows up in demonizing any woman who runs for power. In ignoring - despite evidence - sexual assault and harassment allegations against politicians they like (Al Franken, Bernie Sanders), and weaponizing - despite evidence against - allegations against politicians they don't like (Joe Biden). It shows up in dismissive policy ideas that help minority communities and women. (IE - the dismissive attitude on the right to chose - as if the bodily autonomy of half the United States population is irrelevant)..calling such policies "identity politics." The belief that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are the political establishment, and Bernie Sanders is not..sums this mind frame  up perfectly. At least the far right is upfront. 

 

Both the far right and far left want Applebees open because they want Applebees open. Science be damned. Life loss be damned. The sooner this political Ignorance in the United States dies off the better...and we can talk about real political policies that can impact our country for the better.

 

So as I said. It's a circle. (I would actually argue that globally, it is not a spectrum but a circle..which is why we can never agree about Hitler being far right or far left) And the real problem is - it's hurting us all in our crisis. I have personally suffered a lot because of this virus, as many have. I am also someone who is unlikely to get ill because of Covid. Yet I'm not protesting, nor am I believing ridiculous conspiracy theories..because of the understanding that science is real. That the elderly and communities of color are being hurt because of this gross negligence  and ignorance on the part of the far left and far right, and the understanding that the real establishment in this country is white supremacy - and if you want to be anti-establishment you start by derailing THAT. 

[sneaky]

32 minutes ago, mercfan3 said:

 

Only if you educate yourself through youtube, inforwars, the young turks and youtube - and add a significant lack of understanding about our political system.  

 

The idea that the political policies and actions of Obama and Bush are interchangeable are laughable. (Although, to be fair..both took pandemics seriously..) The current viral political propaganda circling the internet is a perfect example. The "far left" is criticizing Joe Biden for his "war like tendencies" because of video where he talks about military action in Serbia. He was trying to prevent a genocide - but the "far left" fails to distinguish between "war hawk" and "preventing a genocide." At best, it's an ignorant failure to distinguish nuance. At worst, it's gaslighting. 

 

What we repeatedly see, is the far left and the far right coming together on issues..likely rooted in the same flaws. We have far right protesters at the capitals of states (interestingly, in states with women governors..the protesters are angry at governors..in states with male governors but female health department leaders..protesters are angry at the health department leaders)..and far left protesters citing conspiracy theories...likely because they don't want to have to get a vaccine. It's a failure to believe science. 

 

A fear of globalism - rooted in xenophobia. In the far right, we see it in the anti-immigration policies. On the far left - we see it in economic and international policies. The criticism on the far left over the TPP (likely from people who hadn't read it), was hilarious. (Extra hilarious, it would have gone a long way in helping states gain access to medical supplies). Both sides want America to be an isolationist country. That just isn't feasible or realistic. 

 

And it's a belief in anti-establishment rhetoric traced with significant racism and sexism..because America isn't really doing that great. The idea that Obama and Clinton were the same as their fellow Republicans? Ridiculous. Clinton's economic policies led to our greatest economic growth during peacetime. He left office with a surplus. He invested in technology. And him and Hillary tried their damndest to get us Universal Healthcare, and when that failed..was still able to get a healthcare system for poor children. We thanked him by forgetting to vote during midterms - creating a gridlock for any social program that he would have liked to put in place. Obama recovered the economy, was a leader in developing an environmental treaty that took the necessary steps to getting China signed on, and created a national healthcare system. We thanked him by forgetting to vote in midterms, creating a gridlock that prevented any national social program - or anything really - from being enacted. And then begin the narrative that he was actually a failure. Asking why he didn't fix everything - like our actions had nothing to do with it. 

 

The "far left" refuses to actually look at our political infrastructure and facts - just as the far right does. And instead of actually looking at laws and policies in the context of the time, the cancel culture and black and white mentality takes over. And when it all comes down to it..the far left and the far right are no different from each other. The racism on the left doesn't show up in obvious hate crimes, in the way it does on the far right.  It shows up in the insistence that black Americans don't know what is best for them. It shows up in the suggestion for decreasing the political power of the Black community in the Democratic process. It shows up in the criticism of Barack Obama.  The sexism on the left shows up in demonizing any woman who runs for power. In ignoring - despite evidence - sexual assault and harassment allegations against politicians they like (Al Franken, Bernie Sanders), and weaponizing - despite evidence against - allegations against politicians they don't like (Joe Biden). It shows up in dismissive policy ideas that help minority communities and women. (IE - the dismissive attitude on the right to chose - as if the bodily autonomy of half the United States population is irrelevant)..calling such policies "identity politics." The belief that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are the political establishment, and Bernie Sanders is not..sums this mind frame  up perfectly. At least the far right is upfront. 

 

Both the far right and far left want Applebees open because they want Applebees open. Science be damned. Life loss be damned. The sooner this political Ignorance in the United States dies off the better...and we can talk about real political policies that can impact our country for the better.

 

So as I said. It's a circle. (I would actually argue that globally, it is not a spectrum but a circle..which is why we can never agree about Hitler being far right or far left) And the real problem is - it's hurting us all in our crisis. I have personally suffered a lot because of this virus, as many have. I am also someone who is unlikely to get ill because of Covid. Yet I'm not protesting, nor am I believing ridiculous conspiracy theories..because of the understanding that science is real. That the elderly and communities of color are being hurt because of this gross negligence  and ignorance on the part of the far left and far right, and the understanding that the real establishment in this country is white supremacy - and if you want to be anti-establishment you start by derailing THAT. 

On Obama: You do know he literally said he was comparable  economically to Ronald Reagan? If you are a liberal or even center left you would never want to be comparable to a man that demonized African American women as welfare queens, risked Children's health by eliminating veggies in the school lunchroom to save a few bucks, and demonized and ignored hundreds of thousands of gay men struggling with the HIV epidemic. I mean even those in the American center hold the belief that Reagan' trickle down economics was the start of the American downfall.

 

Its nice the Obama is more intelligent than Trump and less corrupt than the Clintons (holy Gates, Epstien, Clinton love triangle) but he could have been so much more. He often came off as apathetic during his tenure as he does still now when he rarely speaks up on current events. His most excited he ever was during this 2020 process was when he tried to get in on bussing Bernie.

 

People are giving up on the Democratic party because even though their messaging is different they are in practice 95% like Republicans. Same useless wars and interventions with no justification behind it besides enriching the likes of Boeing and Ratheon. Both have done next to nothing for raising the wages of the working poor. Both are content to let the welfare system roll on as it is keeping the vulnerable of all colors stagnant in life and dependent on drugs.

 

Both have no problems with super funding factory farms and processed foods in a country struggling with an obesity epidemic while giving no help to Produce farmers and small farmers.

 

Both have shown no care at all in keeping universities and even trade schools affordable. Both parties have voted on setting an unprecedented military budget for...reasons

 

Plus just to fact check Bernie has never been personally accused of sexual harrasment at all. And Tara Reade's story also has more corroborating evidence than Kavanagh's accusation.

 

 

[sneaky]

Trump says the virus will disappear without a virus. I'm not a covid alarmist but that is not how this works..He needs to stop exaggerating to bolster his reelection chances-too transparent

[ButterflyEffect]

Take of this what you will.

[*Chris]

33 minutes ago, ButterflyEffect said:

Take of this what you will.

I saw another one online that also compared NB with North Dakota as our demographics are quite similar. 

[sneaky]

55 minutes ago, ButterflyEffect said:

Take of this what you will.

Yeah but because we dont have efficient social safety nets in America we have to go back to work now.

 

In Florida, there are hundreds of thousands laid off who never got their unemployment benefits nor there stimulus check. Conservative policies rock.

[TeamAudra]

1 hour ago, ButterflyEffect said:

Take of this what you will.

Are people from New York and New Jersey traveling to New Brunswick? Just asking...I honestly don’t know the answer. 
 

EDIT: Actually, I do know the answer. The border is closed down, so the answer is no. You don’t have a New York in your country. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by TeamAudra

[ButterflyEffect]

People from New York and New Jersey should be staying home and not traveling to Maine.

[TeamAudra]

32 minutes ago, ButterflyEffect said:

People from New York and New Jersey should be staying home and not traveling to Maine.

That’s true. Trump was considering enacting a travel ban from New York, but Cuomo had a fit. So, states like Florida enacted a “requirement” of a 14 day quarantine for anyone traveling from New York. The fact is, we have a much bigger and more mobile population than Canada, so yeah...it’s no surprise that we have a bigger problem. In addition, New York is one of the busiest destinations for foreign travel. Add to that the density of the city, and you end up with what we have. Actually...I should say they have. It’s not a huge problem in most areas of the country. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by TeamAudra