COVID-19 Discussion 😷

[sneaky]

52 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:

Canada:

 

Deaths per million: 163

Cases per million: 2157

Tests per million: 36,524

 

Florida: 

 

Deaths per million: 100

Cases per million: 2226

Tests per million: 37,973 

 

Cases and tests are about equal, but Florida is doing a better job of keeping them alive, which is remarkable given the large senior population. 
 

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

By the way, DeSantis is currently my favorite Governor. Do you want to trade? Honestly, Walz isn’t bad for a Democrat, but DeSantis makes me want to move to Florida. 

Hmm Well its a little unknown what the true numbers are.  We just had the person who designated for tracking the number of cases in state fired and Desantis admin has changed their story like three times as to why.

 

He's not the worst Republican but he's dead to me after overturning the people's vote to restore voting rights to felons after  serving their sentence. He basically found a loophole that completely went against the spirit of the amendment.

 

 

[TeamAudra]

3 minutes ago, sneaky said:

Hmm Well its a little unknown what the true numbers are.  We just had the person who designated for tracking the number of cases in state fired and Desantis admin has changed their story like three times as to why.

 

He's not the worst Republican but he's dead to me after overturning the people's vote to restore voting rights to felons after  serving their sentence. He basically found a loophole that completely went against the spirit of the amendment.

 

 

I despise politics being brought into the pandemic, and generally ignore politically based bias. I trust my own judgement on DeSantis. Notice I haven’t been overly critical of my Democrat Governor? That’s because he’s doing a decent job with this. 

[TeamAudra]

Score! I guess that trip to Wisconsin for a haircut won’t be necessary. Picked this up at Target. I check every time I go in there, and wasn’t expecting to find one. I wonder what I could sell this for on the black market? 
 

[mercfan3]

Bleach wipes are the new toilet paper.  

[mercfan3]

On 5/21/2020 at 1:16 PM, ButterflyEffect said:

Ultimately we're dealing with a virus with a high base reproduction number (higher than the common cold, influenza, or H1N1), high mortality rate (~ 20% of all "closed cases" have resulted in death), and a virus which can cause severe complications in young, healthy individuals who would otherwise be able to fight through something like influenza or H1N1. Unfortunately when you give people a inch they'll take a mile. Had the world stayed open for only the young and healthy, how many people would have actually taken it seriously? We do have a sense of immortality at our age, as unfounded as it is. Should everything open back up again tomorrow except for those at risk we're only going to prolong the lifecycle of the virus. Plus, those people still need to do things like buy groceries, possibly go to the bank, etc. We're essentially making it a lot more dangerous for them to go out and take care of essential business by us running around with no cares in the world. A lot have sacrifices have been made the past few months, and people are hurting and I understand that. However you need to think about this as a short term pain for a hopefully long term gain. Do our part for a few months so we can move forward hopefully very soon, otherwise we do nothing and prolong our own suffering.

Eventually things will have to open, and it'll have to be long before there are 0 cases (that won't happen without a vaccine). When the floodgates do open again, it would be nice for the number of cases and hospitalizations to be at a decently low-moderate number. That, along with our new safety measures in place, can buy us time and slow the spread. I'm not 100% certain that the US was in the position, as of yet, to begin opening things, and only time will tell if it was a major mistake or not. I do understand the urgency of the situation considering there is an election staring Trump right in the face, and any president which faces an election with the unemployment numbers currently will be kicked to the curb, but if it backfires and cases uptick again there might be hell to pay.

 

I do wish people would recognize the sacrifices the very young have made. Just being an education - it's so sad. My high school seniors don't get a prom, a graduation awards, maybe not even an in person graduation. They can't say goodbye to their friends. They're panicked about graduating, with hardly anyone to reach out too. (I've listened to three panicked graduation rant). I see a lot of judgmental attitudes about young people - particularly from the demographic who has left said young people quite the mess to clean up after. And the kids are rolling with it - they aren't perfect, of course. But that's the group that is asked to make the biggest sacrifice, with the least benefit. 

 

Read an interesting article about the way pandemic responses end. Either medically or socially. Medically as in..a vaccine is found or the virus dies off. Or socially - society just decides it is over. I have predicted all along that America would fall into the second. We won't keep this up for two years, I don't even think we have the societal structures in places to do it. 

 

The irony of Trump's handling of this is of course..had he handled it well..he might have increased his odds of being elected. Biden is a weak candidate - but he gets to talk about how he had a plan for this at the end of January. How he was a part of an administration that built a pandemic response team - that Trump disbanded. That he has experience rebuilding an economy..

[ButterflyEffect]

If you want to see how a hugely unpopular politician can turn around their fortunes with a good approach to COVID-19, check out Ontario Conservative Premier Doug Ford.

[TeamAudra]

Trump is an idiot. If he would have acted like an adult in those press conferences, his approval rating would probably be at least 5 points higher than it is. And, of course, his Kool-Aid drinking base thinks yelling at reporters helps him. He also should have deferred more to the people standing on stage with him. Ideally, he would have said a few brief words at each briefing, answered 3-4 questions, walked out of the room, and let Pence run the rest of the briefing. 

[RWG]

On 5/21/2020 at 9:11 PM, psterina said:

Sweden isn't on lock down. Businesses are open. People aren't wearing masks. Children are going to school (up to age 16). Groups up to 50 can meet. The deaths there, are the same as everywhere else. What does that tell you? 

 

 

 

 

Sweden's deaths are actually skyrocketting relative to its neighbors in Europe.

 

Norway - 235

Denmark - 561

Finland - 306

 

Sweden - 3,925

 

I love seeing the right wing hold up Sweden as a bastion of freedom and rugged individualism. But I guess if you want a prime example of a place that, when faced with a decision of economy vs protecting the vulnerable, straight up chose the economy, it's Sweden.

 

On 5/21/2020 at 8:43 PM, sneaky said:

That's crazy that Canada is doing so much better than Florida yet hair salons here opened by appointment a week ago

 

On 5/21/2020 at 9:18 PM, TeamAudra said:

Canada:

 

Deaths per million: 163

Cases per million: 2157

Tests per million: 36,524

 

Florida: 

 

Deaths per million: 100

Cases per million: 2226

Tests per million: 37,973 

 

Cases and tests are about equal, but Florida is doing a better job of keeping them alive, which is remarkable given the large senior population. 
 

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

By the way, DeSantis is currently my favorite Governor. Do you want to trade? Honestly, Walz isn’t bad for a Democrat, but DeSantis makes me want to move to Florida. 

 

Canada's death rate is very high because such a high share of its cases have been in senior/long-term care homes. It basically gets in through a visitor or staff member, infects all the seniors in the building, and kills several of them. Community spread is relatively low. (Ironically, it's believed a lot of the infections in these homes were caused by snowbirds coming back from Florida who returned home and immediately rushed to visit their friends/relatives in these homes.)

 

We still need more data, but I think a reason many of these southern states haven't been completely ravished like many thought they would is because warm weather plays at least something of a factor in slowing spread.

 

Also, people assume a place (eg Florida) is going to explode with cases when they see photos of hoards of people on the beach. We still don't know for sure, but it looks like your odds of contracting it outside are actually quite low. From that I think we can deduce that things like closing down parks probably isn't necessary.

Edited May 24, 2020 by RWG

[sneaky]

I mean who cares about separation of church and state, am I right??

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-announces-that-houses-of-worship-are-essential-calls-on-governors-to-open-them-up

 

Keep acting like an old school Republican Trump--did a lot for Bush's legacy

[TeamAudra]

8 minutes ago, RWG said:

 

Sweden's deaths are actually skyrocketting relative to its neighbors in Europe.

 

Norway - 235

Denmark - 561

Finland - 306

 

Sweden - 3,925

 

I love seeing the right wing hold up Sweden as a bastion of freedom and rugged individualism. But I guess if you want a prime example of a place that, when faced with a decision of economy vs protecting the vulnerable, straight up chose the economy, it's Sweden.

 

 

 

Canada's death rate is very high because such a high share of its cases have been in senior/long-term care homes. It basically gets in through a visitor or staff member, infects all the seniors in the building, and kills several of them. Community spread is relatively low. (Ironically, it's believed a lot of the infections in these homes were caused by snowbirds coming back from Florida who returned home and immediately rushed to visit their friends/relatives in these homes.)

 

We still need more data, but I think a reason many of these southern states haven't been completely ravished like many thought they would is because warm weather plays at least something of a factor in slowing spread.

 

Also, people assume a place (eg Florida) is going to explode with cases when they see photos of hoards of people on the beach. We still don't know for sure, but it looks like your odds of contracting it outside are actually quite low. From that I think we can deduce that things like closing down parks probably isn't necessary.

 

 

Minnesota has the nursing home problem too. Deaths ended up higher than anyone predicted, and that’s the reason, as you can see from this snippet from the state website. Community spread is comparatively low, which is why the Governor has had the confidence to start opening things back up (but not quickly enough for a lot of people). 
 

This is an stunning stat. Our deaths per million is also higher than Florida’s because of this...

 

• Deaths: 842
  • Deaths among cases that resided in long-term care or assisted living facilities: 688

Edited May 23, 2020 by TeamAudra

[TeamAudra]

In case anyone missed it, the CDC has determined that the virus does not spread easily on surfaces. This might explain why grocery store workers aren’t dropping like flies. It’s person to person contact, and droplets from sneezing, coughing and talking. The droplets can land in the mouth or nose, or be inhaled. 

 

 

[RWG]

30 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:

In case anyone missed it, the CDC has determined that the virus does not spread easily on surfaces. This might explain why grocery store workers aren’t dropping like flies. It’s person to person contact, and droplets from sneezing, coughing and talking. The droplets can land in the mouth or nose, or be inhaled. 

 

 

 

They sort of backpedaled on this statement because they still want people to take the precautions, but some epidemiologists who do media have been expressing this general sentiment for months: distancing yourself from others in public does much more to protect you from the virus than disinfecting your groceries and washing your hands constantly does. You're more likely to get it from someone else's mouth indoors than you are from touching a surface and then touching your face. 

[TeamAudra]

Hmmm.....

 

 

[TeamAudra]

Hmmm.....

 

 

[ButterflyEffect]

11 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

In case anyone missed it, the CDC has determined that the virus does not spread easily on surfaces. This might explain why grocery store workers aren’t dropping like flies. It’s person to person contact, and droplets from sneezing, coughing and talking. The droplets can land in the mouth or nose, or be inhaled. 

 

 

Viruses typically don't have a very long lifespan on surfaces to begin with. Depending on the surface type you're typically only looking at a few hours maximum. Problems arise when infected surfaces are in high traffic areas, like a washroom doorknob in an office. Or more seriously: surfaces in hospitals, where spread of infection can happen quickly and have the most serious outcomes. Your chances of being infected after grabbing some produce at a store is near zero, your chance of becoming infected after touching a doorknob and not washing your hands are much higher.

 

9 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

Hmmm.....

 

 

Infections will go down during the summer months as people get outside more and minimize close interactions with people inside. Much like the reason that your chances of getting the common cold or influenza are very small during the summer months. Once fall starts and people move back indoors we'll see infections bump again. That's why most people are predicting the second wave to hit September-onward despite things opening now.

[mercfan3]

If it turns out that the heat slows the virus down - we do have a chance to respond correctly, and contain it properly in the second wave. 

 

I don't expect this to happen federally. But having the months of June, July, and August to prepare could be helpful. At least maybe Cuomo and Newsom might have some adequate time. 

 

There is also the potential for drugs like remdesivir or perhaps other drugs that aid in recovery time to be researched before then too. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by mercfan3

[TeamAudra]

10 minutes ago, mercfan3 said:

If it turns out that the heat slows the virus down - we do have a chance to respond correctly, and contain it properly in the second wave. 

 

I don't expect this to happen federally. But having the months of June, July, and August to prepare could be helpful. At least maybe Cuomo and Newsom might have some adequate time. 

 

There is also the potential for drugs like remdesivir or perhaps other drugs that aid in recovery time to be researched before then too. 

For starters, Cuomo probably won’t be sending any more COVID patients to nursing homes. That should help, right? This is indefensible. 
 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by TeamAudra

[mercfan3]

Stop pretending you aren't thinking about politics with Covid. 

 

Come on, you keep citing Foxnews and conservatives. Being impressed with the way DeSantis is handling it...how can we know how he's doing - when the state government is hiding Covid data..

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/08/blocked-data-floridas-medical-examiners-expose-covid-19-failures-unredacted/3058832001/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/florida-georgia-covid-19-test-data/index.html

 

While sending a subtle jab at Newsmon, who acted far earlier than other states, has just as high of a population density as NYC. Has negotiated for medical supplies with other countries, and is helping other states. I can't imagine the amount of lives he has personally saved. But conservatives want to talk about the unemployment rate for CA... 

 

Now we have a shot at Cuomo - who was literally following the same policy that the CDC laid out, and that many other states were following. Yes, he sent "medically stable" patients, who had tested positive for Covid back to nursing homes. As in, patients that were assumed to be recovered. The problem - of course - is that people remain contagious far longer than initially thought. Cuomo, then reversed the policy - going above what other states were doing. But Republicans are using it as a way to attack a person who has done a damn good job with the cards he was dealt. (Not perfect - he waiting too long, but was still earlier than most people, and had limited information.) 

 

Now, do I think my Governor's decision (Lamont) was better? Yes. Lamont set up "Covid" nursing homes. Once a patient had been to a hospital, they went to one of the nursing homes assigned to deal with those patients, and will stay there until the Pandemic is over. Obviously that is better..but again, CT is a lot smaller than NYC. Cuomo likely doesn't have the ability to do that. 

 

It's a Pandemic. Every leader will make decisions that aren't perfect, because it's literally a historical event. My issue is with those leaders who ignore science and pretend Covid isn't a threat. 

 

 

 

 

[TeamAudra]

25 minutes ago, mercfan3 said:

Stop pretending you aren't thinking about politics with Covid. 

 

Come on, you keep citing Foxnews and conservatives. Being impressed with the way DeSantis is handling it...how can we know how he's doing - when the state government is hiding Covid data..

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/08/blocked-data-floridas-medical-examiners-expose-covid-19-failures-unredacted/3058832001/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/florida-georgia-covid-19-test-data/index.html

 

While sending a subtle jab at Newsmon, who acted far earlier than other states, has just as high of a population density as NYC. Has negotiated for medical supplies with other countries, and is helping other states. I can't imagine the amount of lives he has personally saved. But conservatives want to talk about the unemployment rate for CA... 

 

Now we have a shot at Cuomo - who was literally following the same policy that the CDC laid out, and that many other states were following. Yes, he sent "medically stable" patients, who had tested positive for Covid back to nursing homes. As in, patients that were assumed to be recovered. The problem - of course - is that people remain contagious far longer than initially thought. Cuomo, then reversed the policy - going above what other states were doing. But Republicans are using it as a way to attack a person who has done a damn good job with the cards he was dealt. (Not perfect - he waiting too long, but was still earlier than most people, and had limited information.) 

 

Now, do I think my Governor's decision (Lamont) was better? Yes. Lamont set up "Covid" nursing homes. Once a patient had been to a hospital, they went to one of the nursing homes assigned to deal with those patients, and will stay there until the Pandemic is over. Obviously that is better..but again, CT is a lot smaller than NYC. Cuomo likely doesn't have the ability to do that. 

 

It's a Pandemic. Every leader will make decisions that aren't perfect, because it's literally a historical event. My issue is with those leaders who ignore science and pretend Covid isn't a threat. 

 

 

 

 

I actually didn’t think you’d try to defend Cuomo. I was clearly wrong. I posted an AP article, not Fox News. I know you look at everything through partisan glasses. I’m judging this based on results and policies (hint: draconian lockdowns don’t count. They need to strike a balance) and my impressions, based on interviews, and such. DeSantis rocks. I’ll give my Democrat Governor a solid B+ on his handling of this. I appreciate that he’s not letting politics influence his decision making. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by TeamAudra

[psterina]

18 hours ago, RWG said:

 

Sweden's deaths are actually skyrocketting relative to its neighbors in Europe.

 

Norway - 235

Denmark - 561

Finland - 306

 

Sweden - 3,925

 

I love seeing the right wing hold up Sweden as a bastion of freedom and rugged individualism. But I guess if you want a prime example of a place that, when faced with a decision of economy vs protecting the vulnerable, straight up chose the economy, it's Sweden.

 

 

 

Canada's death rate is very high because such a high share of its cases have been in senior/long-term care homes. It basically gets in through a visitor or staff member, infects all the seniors in the building, and kills several of them. Community spread is relatively low. (Ironically, it's believed a lot of the infections in these homes were caused by snowbirds coming back from Florida who returned home and immediately rushed to visit their friends/relatives in these homes.)

 

We still need more data, but I think a reason many of these southern states haven't been completely ravished like many thought they would is because warm weather plays at least something of a factor in slowing spread.

 

Also, people assume a place (eg Florida) is going to explode with cases when they see photos of hoards of people on the beach. We still don't know for sure, but it looks like your odds of contracting it outside are actually quite low. From that I think we can deduce that things like closing down parks probably isn't necessary.

 

Lastly, testing where I live, in Ontario, has been an utter calamity. It wouldn't shock me if even Florida had a better handle on where its cases are coming from.

 

Sweden has 10.18 Million people. They have had 3992 deaths. in percentages, what is that …  0.039% ?  AND … they are further north, hence colder, than a lot of the other countries, AND....  they didn't destroy their economy 

Edited May 23, 2020 by psterina

[ButterflyEffect]

On a per capita basis Sweeden is 25th in the world (for most), with a infection rate of 3,288 per million people. If you need to know if that's good or not, it's not. And for death rate per million people, they're 8th in the world (for worst) with 396 per million. So by all intensive purposes they are doing freaking awful. But you believe whatever fake news you want to believe.

[psterina]

1 hour ago, ButterflyEffect said:

On a per capita basis Sweeden is 25th in the world (for most), with a infection rate of 3,288 per million people. If you need to know if that's good or not, it's not. And for death rate per million people, they're 8th in the world (for worst) with 396 per million. So by all intensive purposes they are doing freaking awful. But you believe whatever fake news you want to believe.

 

Upon doing an internet  search, THIS is the 1st thing that pops up. So … if that is "fake news" to you, then   

Coronavirus (COVID-19) statistics

Sweden cases

Updated May 23 at 2:37 PM local

Confirmed

33,188

+379

Deaths

3,992

+67

Recovered

4,971

See breakdown

See less

 

 

 

Confirmed

5,267,452

+99,019

Deaths

339,949

+4,013

Recovered

2,086,375

+100,719

See breakdown

Edited May 23, 2020 by psterina

[ButterflyEffect]

Yes, those are indeed the numbers. However, if you don't understand why it's important to talk about cases per capita as opposed to raw numbers then there's no hope for any meaningful discussion. 

If you for some reason can't understand why population statistics are most often discussed per capita, ponder this question. Which hypothetical country is doing worse?
1. A country of 10,000 people that has 8,500 confirmed cases
2. A country of 250,000 people that has 10,000 cases

Edited May 23, 2020 by ButterflyEffect

[RWG]

If you want to demonstrate that countries can handle the virus more or less successfully without shutting down their economies, at least use Japan.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing

[psterina]

15 hours ago, RWG said:

If you want to demonstrate that countries can handle the virus more or less successfully without shutting down their economies, at least use Japan.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing

 

By all means, YES. Thanks, for helping me make my point!