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A black woman never will win The Voice v.2


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How about an experiment for S18. Put 5 of your best black female singers (marketable ones, bring Kennedy back even) against 43 white, female indie folk (the type that Emily Keener is, and make them stay true to their genre) and rock singers of all ages (like Moriah Formica, not the lighter stuff) and see what happens. And don’t overpimp. The audience doesn’t fall for that anymore. My money says a black female wins that season.

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You never see white singers lifting a finger to appeal to black audiences. If Jake wins tonight, tell me one time he made an effort to appeal to a black audience. And yet if black female singers want to win, they have to pander to a white audience. Be less of themselves. There is a name to this.

It's been 17 seasons and it's clear that America is insanely biased, but I wasn't talking about them pandering to an white audience; I was talking about them not breaking the mold and picking that kind of outdated songs when they're already in clear disadvantage, which does them no favor. Of course race unfortunately plays a big part as well, I was just talking about a different factor. :thumbs:

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You never see white singers lifting a finger to appeal to black audiences. If Jake wins tonight, tell me one time he made an effort to appeal to a black audience. And yet if black female singers want to win, they have to pander to a white audience. Be less of themselves. There is a name to this.

slay.

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A black woman is not winning because they never do what they really need to win the show. Season after season we see the same divas, singing the same kind of old songs, slaying vocally as usual, but ultimately proving that they have no place in the market. The moment one of them step up on stage for the Blinds, you know they're gonna sing an Aretha song, probably a Whitney song at some point too, the usual stuff. They just never really do much to break the mold and free themselves from the pre-conceptions the public is gonna have of them, even though they always have the same fate, season after season.

 

Like, I'm sorry, Rose is not gonna do anything with a song choice like Border Song, let's be real. She's a fantastic vocalist, and should have more of a shot if the contest was really about the voice, but it's not and we all know it. Maybe pick a current Beyoncé or Rihanna song that can show she has some place in the market (lol) instead of an Elton John song from 1970. I used to be bothered by America not saving those kinds of singer, but I can't really blame them for not doing it anymore, not even I can be impressed by them. The only ones I genuinely felt was were Kimberly Nichole (Amanda is a different case because she peaked too early, it wasn't because she was black), who was constantly raising the bar and doing something different and better week after week, from ballads to uptempo. She was a complete vocalist and someone who was truly robbed because of who she was and how she performed.

 

So yeah, if singers like Rose want to have any kind of shot they have to dance to America's tune, otherwise none of them will stand a chance and will only be able to get to a certain point. Can't say they're really robbed anymore :ph34rwave:

What about Kennedy? She had the teen appeal + sang a mix of older/current songs, and was up against one of the weaker Top 3’s the show has had, and still couldn’t get out of 4th :huh:

Edited by Survivor
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Speaking in general terms, Black females on The Voice usually have a strong Gospel/soul background so they are easily labeled as generic and subsequently they get lost in the shuffle. For a black female to win the Voice this contestant would need a lot of marketability + a ton of crossover appeal. A contestant doing kinda what Chloe did with the rocker type.

 

OPINION ON SOME TOPICS:

A black female singing country

Personally I don't think singing country guarantees anything for a female on the Voice. For a start, Gracee and Kyndal were not among the most popular contestants this season. The country female usually works if they have a strong twang in her voice + TPTB seal of approval.

 

Now for a black female singing country, you'll need something like this girl's voice:

(this is the first video I found when I typed "Black female country" on YouTube)

Pljp0RHbKmA

Obviously, we need more requirements like charisma, pimping, Team Blake and youthfulness, but that type of twangy voice would be a good start for any country female.

 

Kimberly Nichole

Kimberly was a 30 something y/o rocker on Team Christina (As you may have noticed, the audience hates white divas as well), so Kimberly not making it very far on a weak team, was a very likely possibility. Also, her genre was competing against more popular genres like Country (Meghan), Soul (India) and Blues (Korin).

 

Amanda Brown

I didn't watch season 3, so the only thing I can think of about what happened to Amanda Brown, is that her song choices ruined her (props to Adam) + the genre drawback. Other than that, I do not understand how that girl didn't win the show.

 

Kennedy Holmes

13 y/o, very talented Singer, TCO, amazing stage presence; What could go wrong, right? :haha:. Mainly two things:

- The audience hates JHud. Just like they hate Christina and Gwen. Do you wanna know how an acceptable female coach should act/look like according to Minivan? See Alicia Keys and Kelly Clarkson.

- Charisma. I'm sorry, but at least for me, Kennedy always looked like a girl being forced to perform on stage. If we add the genre disadvantage, it was obvious that she wasn't going to win. Btw, it's noteworthy that despite this, she outlasted other popular teens (Sarah, Reagan) and two skilled adults (Makenzie and Kimberly).

 

 

TL;DR: This is a race-related thing but it's not like: "Look! a black female, I'm never going to vote for her!", Its more like: "look, yet another black diva on a singing competition show! How boring... Yeeehaw!".

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Speaking in general terms, Black females on The Voice usually have a strong Gospel/soul background so they are easily labeled as generic and subsequently they get lost in the shuffle. For a black female to win the Voice this contestant would need a lot of marketability + a ton of crossover appeal. A contestant doing kinda what Chloe did with the rocker type.

 

OPINION ON SOME TOPICS:

A black female singing country

Personally I don't think singing country guarantees anything for a female on the Voice. For a start, Gracee and Kyndal were not among the most popular contestants this season. The country female usually works if they have a strong twang in her voice + TPTB seal of approval.

 

Now for a black female singing country, you'll need something like this girl's voice:

(this is the first video I found when I typed "Black female country" on YouTube)

Pljp0RHbKmA

Obviously, we need more requirements like charisma, pimping, Team Blake and youthfulness, but that type of twangy voice would be a good start for any country female.

 

Kimberly Nichole

Kimberly was a 30 something y/o rocker on Team Christina (As you may have noticed, the audience hates white divas as well), so Kimberly not making it very far on a weak team, was a very likely possibility. Also, her genre was competing against more popular genres like Country (Meghan), Soul (India) and Blues (Korin).

 

Amanda Brown

I didn't watch season 3, so the only thing I can think of about what happened to Amanda Brown, is that her song choices ruined her (props to Adam) + the genre drawback. Other than that, I do not understand how that girl didn't win the show.

 

Kennedy Holmes

13 y/o, very talented Singer, TCO, amazing stage presence; What could go wrong, right? :haha:. Mainly two things:

- The audience hates JHud. Just like they hate Christina and Gwen. Do you wanna know how an acceptable female coach should act/look like according to Minivan? See Alicia Keys and Kelly Clarkson.

- Charisma. I'm sorry, but at least for me, Kennedy always looked like a girl being forced to perform on stage. If we add the genre disadvantage, it was obvious that she wasn't going to win. Btw, it's noteworthy that despite this, she outlasted other popular teens (Sarah, Reagan) and two skilled adults (Makenzie and Kimberly).

TL;DR: This is a race-related thing but it's not like: "Look! a black female, I'm never going to vote for her!", Its more like: "look, yet another black diva on a singing competition show! How boring... Yeeehaw!".

 

Thanks for reminding me to add Mickey Guyton to my Apple Music library. :thumbs:

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How about an experiment for S18. Put 5 of your best black female singers (marketable ones, bring Kennedy back even) against 43 white, female indie folk (the type that Emily Keener is, and make them stay true to their genre) and rock singers of all ages (like Moriah Formica, not the lighter stuff) and see what happens. And don’t overpimp. The audience doesn’t fall for that anymore. My money says a black female wins that season.

You should add crooners and Some R&B-pop falsetto guys just to give the impression that this is a normal season :haha: (All white btw)

Edited by echoap
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Amanda Brown

I didn't watch season 3, so the only thing I can think of about what happened to Amanda Brown, is that her song choices ruined her (props to Adam) + the genre drawback. Other than that, I do not understand how that girl didn't win the show.

Queen Amanda didn't make it bc it was the year of the rise of Blake's Army and the Blake-Adam rivalry had already been firmly established. The voting was different in those days, and they were able to get rid of both Melanie and Amanda in one fell swoop the same week, removing all threat to a Blake win.

 

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Queen Amanda didn't make it bc it was the year of the rise of Blake's Army and the Blake-Adam rivalry had already been firmly established. The voting was different in those days, and they were able to get rid of both Melanie and Amanda in one fell swoop the same week, removing all threat to a Blake win.

Sounds sad :'(. From what I've watched on YouTube, she's my favorite black female in the history of the show. I'd have stanned such Queen really hard :wub:

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It's been 17 seasons and it's clear that America is insanely biased, but I wasn't talking about them pandering to an white audience; I was talking about them not breaking the mold and picking that kind of outdated songs when they're already in clear disadvantage, which does them no favor. Of course race unfortunately plays a big part as well, I was just talking about a different factor. :thumbs:

 

But here’s the deal, I don’t think they have been as stuck in a box as you’re saying. If you take Rose for instance, I don’t think anyone can argue that her journey on the show has been that of a typical black diva. If you look at the songs Katie’s sung, those have been extremely more obvious, and she might win tonight. She gets a pass for doing I’m Going Down, Baby I Love You, Without You, Adele, Gaga, the Aerosmith/Dianne Warren ballad. Rose went out of her not to be stuck in that box. Kennedy is pretty much the same thing. She did country, she did This Is Me which was a huge hit at the time, Me Too, Confident — she was marketable. Now look at how much more predictable and stuck in a box were Chevel’s picks. The one contestant you could argue was closer to an obvious black diva singing show contestant was Kyla — but then take her teammate that season, Spensha, who did contemporary song after contemporary song AND was on Team Blake. She still wasn’t seen as “really country”. You can go back to Keisha Renee for the same thing. So I don’t understand why we should accept that it’s perfectly normal that Jake gets to do cliches like Desperado and Amazed for his two last covers and win but if a black diva does a Whitney song and a Celine song, she gets called outdated. Whitney Houston herself wouldn’t have won this show if she were singing in her prime her own songs on this show. Think about that — she would have lost to Jake Hoot! I think we have had literally had every kind of black female singer on this show who had basically every kind of journey possible and there are people still playing the game of “what they have to do to win is...”. Please. No. Stop. It’s maddening to me because I’m not American and I don’t live in America (although I did live there for two years) and it’s SO transparent to me that the racial bias is tragic, and people who deny these obvious facts and try to accuse those of us exposing facts of doing “race baiting” are nothing if not enablers. Being "not racist" isn't good enough. You must stand up and be ANTI racist.

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It's been 17 seasons and it's clear that America is insanely biased, but I wasn't talking about them pandering to an white audience; I was talking about them not breaking the mold and picking that kind of outdated songs when they're already in clear disadvantage, which does them no favor. Of course race unfortunately plays a big part as well, I was just talking about a different factor. :thumbs:

 

Kimberly was a 30 something y/o rocker on Team Christina (As you may have noticed, the audience hates white divas as well), so Kimberly not making it very far on a weak team, was a very likely possibility. Also, her genre was competing against more popular genres like Country (Meghan), Soul (India) and Blues (Korin).

 

Talking about outdated songs and white divas, Tessanne managed to win even singing Whitney and other outdated R&B songs, while Alisan, in spite of being called screamer and diva, also won.

 

Kennedy Holmes

13 y/o, very talented Singer, TCO, amazing stage presence; What could go wrong, right? :haha:. Mainly two things:

- The audience hates JHud. Just like they hate Christina and Gwen. Do you wanna know how an acceptable female coach should act/look like according to Minivan? See Alicia Keys and Kelly Clarkson.

- Charisma. I'm sorry, but at least for me, Kennedy always looked like a girl being forced to perform on stage. If we add the genre disadvantage, it was obvious that she wasn't going to win. Btw, it's noteworthy that despite this, she outlasted other popular teens (Sarah, Reagan) and two skilled adults (Makenzie and Kimberly).

TL;DR: This is a race-related thing but it's not like: "Look! a black female, I'm never going to vote for her!", Its more like: "look, yet another black diva on a singing competition show! How boring... Yeeehaw!".

 

The audience hates JHud because most of them call her "screamer", but support other powerhouses like Kelly.

 

If Kennedy doesn't have charisma, what about Chevel?

 

And what Tessanne, Alisan, Kelly and Chevel have in common?

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Talking about outdated songs and white divas, Tessanne managed to win even singing Whitney and other outdated R&B songs, while Alisan, in spite of being called screamer and diva, also won.

The audience hates JHud because most of them call her "screamer", but support other powerhouses like Kelly.

 

If Kennedy doesn't have charisma, what about Chevel?

 

And what Tessanne, Alisan, Kelly and Chevel have in common?

 

True, the audience is clearly bias towards white people.

 

And Chevel has the charisma of a tree... just like Jake Hoot, yet he has the Top 2 locked up like her.

 

Talking about outdated songs and white divas, Tessanne managed to win even singing Whitney and other outdated R&B songs, while Alisan, in spite of being called screamer and diva, also won.

The audience hates JHud because most of them call her "screamer", but support other powerhouses like Kelly.

 

If Kennedy doesn't have charisma, what about Chevel?

 

And what Tessanne, Alisan, Kelly and Chevel have in common?

 

True, the audience is clearly bias towards white people.

 

And Chevel has the charisma of a tree... just like Jake Hoot, yet he has the Top 2 locked up like her.

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Even with Blake Shelton's support, Spensha, Sisaundra and other black women on his team didn't manage to win.

 

It's not Blake Shelton's support per se. It's Blake's FANS' support (by no means monolithic, but still) that makes the difference, i.e. who or what they choose to support, irrespective of what he tells them. It's firstly the types of fans he's attracted to show. And then secondly, it's the types of pre-existing preferences those very fans bring to the voting.

 

Simply put, if you've got a ton of white, country-leaning voters watching the show sort of religiously, well I think you can work out the rest...

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Sounds sad :'(. From what I've watched on YouTube, she's my favorite black female in the history of the show. I'd have stanned such Queen really hard :wub:

Same. Still the most soul-crushing results show I ever watched. :'( Best AA female contestant ever on the show. No disrespect to Rose and others, I love Rose, but it's jmo.
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Think about this. Jennifer Hudson is hated by the typical viewer of this show. Kelly Clarkson is their sweetheart. They are basically the same person, doing the same “yesssss!” histrionic routine, screaming and jumping and throwing shoes — they are both too much to the point of verging on fakeness (I love Jennifer and love Kelly the singer, don’t hate on me!). Why do they get a different reaction? Think about this and stop lying to yourselves.

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But here’s the deal, I don’t think they have been as stuck in a box as you’re saying. If you take Rose for instance, I don’t think anyone can argue that her journey on the show has been that of a typical black diva. If you look at the songs Katie’s sung, those have been extremely more obvious, and she might win tonight. She gets a pass for doing I’m Going Down, Baby I Love You, Without You, Adele, Gaga, the Aerosmith/Dianne Warren ballad. Rose went out of her not to be stuck in that box. Kennedy is pretty much the same thing. She did country, she did This Is Me which was a huge hit at the time, Me Too, Confident — she was marketable. Now look at how much more predictable and stuck in a box were Chevel’s picks. The one contestant you could argue was closer to an obvious black diva singing show contestant was Kyla — but then take her teammate that season, Spensha, who did contemporary song after contemporary song AND was on Team Blake. She still wasn’t seen as “really country”. You can go back to Keisha Renee for the same thing. So I don’t understand why we should accept that it’s perfectly normal that Jake gets to do cliches like Desperado and Amazed for his two last covers and win but if a black diva does a Whitney song and a Celine song, she gets called outdated. Whitney Houston herself wouldn’t have won this show if she were singing in her prime her own songs on this show. Think about that — she would have lost to Jake Hoot! I think we have had literally had every kind of black female singer on this show who had basically every kind of journey possible and there are people still playing the game of “what they have to do to win is...”. Please. No. Stop. It’s maddening to me because I’m not American and I don’t live in America (although I did live there for two years) and it’s SO transparent to me that the racial bias is tragic, and people who deny these obvious facts and try to accuse those of us exposing facts of doing “race baiting” are nothing if not enablers. Being "not racist" isn't good enough. You must stand up and be ANTI racist.

 

BRAVO!

 

You pointed one thing I missed that is the fact Katie is much more a diva and "screamer" than Rose and even so Katie is receiving more support.

 

Racism and prejudice are so incorporated into our minds that we unconsciously try to find excuses to something inexcusable.

 

 

 

 

It's not Blake Shelton's support per se. It's Blake's FANS' support (by no means monolithic, but still) that makes the difference, i.e. who or what they choose to support, irrespective of what he tells them. It's firstly the types of fans he's attracted to show. And then secondly, it's the types of pre-existing preferences those very fans bring to the voting.

 

Simply put, if you've got a ton of white, country-leaning voters watching the show sort of religiously, well I think you can work out the rest...

 

And why Blake's fans didn't support black women other than race bias?

 

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Talking about outdated songs and white divas, Tessanne managed to win even singing Whitney and other outdated R&B songs, while Alisan, in spite of being called screamer and diva, also won.

The audience hates JHud because most of them call her "screamer", but support other powerhouses like Kelly.

 

If Kennedy doesn't have charisma, what about Chevel?

 

And what Tessanne, Alisan, Kelly and Chevel have in common?

I honestly don't see how being black/Asian is better than being black on the show.

 

Alisan looked pop/rock to me. I think she barely, I repeat, barely won because of the Curly Sue thing. Shes was basically a ringer, and TPTB needed a lot of pimping to make it happen.

 

Chevel may not have charisma for you, but the audience clearly disagrees with this.

 

What all the Voice winners have in common? They are not rappers.

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And Chevel has the charisma of a tree... just like Jake Hoot, yet he has the Top 2 locked up like her.

True, the audience is clearly bias towards white people.

 

And Chevel has the charisma of a tree... just like Jake Hoot, yet he has the Top 2 locked up like her.

Charisma =/= stage presence. Charisma is more related to appeal rather than skill.

Edited by echoap
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Yeah it's been pretty clear, and after Kennedy 100% clear, that a black female will never win The Voice. They've done everything they possibly can by pimping when needed, black female rock artists, black female country artists and black female teens. I haven't really done the math (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe collectively Blake has had the most black females on his team. I also feel like out of all the coaches Blake has tried his hardest win with a black female.

 

After all of that, still a black female hasn't won the show. Ironically, like what ppl said before, Blake's fans/following is the biggest issue. There is no "formula" for a black female to win because being a black female is a curse within itself on the show. There's not a set criteria for being a country artist so when Keisha and Spensha are deemed as "not country enough" we all know what ppl are really saying....

 

Also saw that someone used AI (Fantasia, Jordin & Candice) to try to figure out what changed from then, but to me it's pretty obvious. During both Fantasia & Jordin's seasons, R&B/Soul was definitely a more respected, appreciated and popular genre. As for Candice, by that time R&B/Soul wasn't as popular anymore, but we also got Nicki Minaj and Mariah Carey as a judge that season so their fans/following would definitely support and artist like Candice over an artist like Kree or Angie. (Looking back on it, the majority of the top 10 & 20 were R&B/Soul artists)

 

I think what brought everything home for me was reading an article that listed all the things The Four needed to change to become more successful. Literally two of the biggest things they listed was adding a country judge and adding more country/rock artists. Even big R&B artists (mainly black females) today still struggle to top the charts so a black woman winning a competition where the costumer's voice actually matters will never happen in this day and age.

 

They would literally need to have a top 12/13 with at least 10 of them being black females for one to win. Even then, the one or two white males or females will at least make the finale via PV.

Edited by E.Stewie
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I think what brought everything home for me was reading an article that listed all the things The Four needed to change to become more successful. Literally two of the biggest things they listed was adding a country judge and adding more country/rock artists. Even big R&B artists (mainly black females) today still struggle to top the charts so a black woman winning a competition where the costumer's voice actually matters will never happen in this day and age.

the four snapped

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But here’s the deal, I don’t think they have been as stuck in a box as you’re saying. If you take Rose for instance, I don’t think anyone can argue that her journey on the show has been that of a typical black diva. If you look at the songs Katie’s sung, those have been extremely more obvious, and she might win tonight. She gets a pass for doing I’m Going Down, Baby I Love You, Without You, Adele, Gaga, the Aerosmith/Dianne Warren ballad. Rose went out of her not to be stuck in that box. Kennedy is pretty much the same thing. She did country, she did This Is Me which was a huge hit at the time, Me Too, Confident — she was marketable. Now look at how much more predictable and stuck in a box were Chevel’s picks. The one contestant you could argue was closer to an obvious black diva singing show contestant was Kyla — but then take her teammate that season, Spensha, who did contemporary song after contemporary song AND was on Team Blake. She still wasn’t seen as “really country”. You can go back to Keisha Renee for the same thing. So I don’t understand why we should accept that it’s perfectly normal that Jake gets to do cliches like Desperado and Amazed for his two last covers and win but if a black diva does a Whitney song and a Celine song, she gets called outdated. Whitney Houston herself wouldn’t have won this show if she were singing in her prime her own songs on this show. Think about that — she would have lost to Jake Hoot! I think we have had literally had every kind of black female singer on this show who had basically every kind of journey possible and there are people still playing the game of “what they have to do to win is...”. Please. No. Stop. It’s maddening to me because I’m not American and I don’t live in America (although I did live there for two years) and it’s SO transparent to me that the racial bias is tragic, and people who deny these obvious facts and try to accuse those of us exposing facts of doing “race baiting” are nothing if not enablers. Being "not racist" isn't good enough. You must stand up and be ANTI racist.

I'm gonna ignore the last portion of your answer because you're tripping and that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

I never said it's acceptable for Jake to do the songs he did. He's gonna be one of, if not the blandest winner The Voice ever had. What I said is that the racial bias on these shows is sadly a thing, and those kinds of singers like Rose are doing themselves no favors by picking song choices that play more and more into America's dislike for the stereotype. I'm not arguing about the racial bias, you're completely right about that, and I'm not saying that the black divas have to follow a formula that white country singers have to follow in order to win, I'm saying that I can see why they're continuously in disadvantage when at this point it's already clear what America thinks it's ok and thinks it's not ok. And truth be told, Kennedy did the possible and impossible to break the mold, and it still wasn't enough, which sucks. I'm not supporting Katie either, and even if she's clearly not grouped by the casuals in the same box as Rose, that doesn't mean she'll have any success after the show (neither will and we know that).

 

Bullet points:

 

Is the racial bias clearly existent and unfortunate? Yes, sadly America is racist and black singers are unfortunately judged by standards white ones aren't.

 

Is blaming all the other problems related to their artistry on the racial bias the solution? No, I don't care about someone's race, I, personally, do believe they would have higher chances if they're singing more current songs and adapting to the market than if they're singing ballads from decades ago when they're ALREADY in disadvantage due to their color.

Edited by Weirdoo
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Is blaming all the other problems related to their artistry on the racial bias the solution? No, I don't care about someone's race, I, personally, do believe they would have higher chances if they're singing more current songs and adapting to the market than if they're singing ballads from decades ago when they're ALREADY in disadvantage due to their color.

 

You say that as if they have control over what songs they get to sing. They can only sing what the show has the right to use. If song choice was solely up to the contestant, I'm sure at least Amanda, Kimberly and Kyla would've won their seasons.

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Even the best of the best, Whitney Houston or Michael Jackson couldn't beat Jake Hoot on the one and only TV US.

:haha:

 

Obviously no one can beat the Hoot, but IMO, in any other season:

 

- A young Whitney on team Blake or team Kelly: very possible winner.

 

- About Michael, lol. Totally unnecessary, you just need someone like Jermaine Paul or Chris Blue to win the show. :lol:

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:haha:

 

Obviously no one can beat the Hoot, but IMO, in any other season:

 

- A young Whitney on team Blake or team Kelly: very possible winner.

- About Michael, lol. Totally unnecessary, you just need someone like Jermaine Paul or Chris Blue to win the show. :lol:

 

I'm probably gonna get ripped for this, but if we're basing it off vocal ability as in range and acrobats, Shi'Ann is the closest we got to a young Whitney. However, it seemed like America didn't really like her voice plus she was team JHud so...

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