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3 hours ago, Someone648 said:

Your perception of the debate as Wallace not letting Trump respond is pretty damn funny when from the beginning we see that Trump was the main interruption, and that persisted throughout the whole debate. Not to say that Biden didn't try to interrupt several times as well, but that's nowhere near the level that Trump interrupted. Wallace's role was the moderator, both parties agreed to the rules and while it's true neither of them stuck to it, Trump gave zero f**ks about it while Biden at least calmed himself at times. That's not Wallace being biased - that's him doing his job, even if he did an awful job at it.

 

 

 

 

Apparently, it was a lot of people's "perceptions", as I read so many comments, saying so

 

"We've all seen a game where the referee is objectively making bogus calls throughout the game in favor of one team. Chris Wallace was that referee," Jenna Ellis, senior legal adviser to the Donald Trump campaign said.

"Chris Wallace posed questions to Trump aimed at cornering him while posing questions to Biden giving him a chance to explain himself. It was two against one, but one still prevailed #Debate2020," conservative pundit Dinesh D'Souza wrote.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/chris-wallace-lambasted-after-fiery-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-1535173

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I can see the Trump supporters are as delusional as Trump here. Posting a bunch of fake conspiracy theories is pretty pathetic, but Trump knew he could manipulate his voters into this charade.  

I find it hilarious how Trumpsters (and Republicans in general) are just so used to cheating and bullying their way through life, that they simply can't fathom that 75 million Americans voted against

BRB, making a YouTube video about this DEFINITIVE PROOF of ELECTORAL FRAUD in Florida. People looking for this type of stuff will eat it up without question.

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Interesting, that groups of people, that overwhelmingly vote democrat, may not ...

 

"In a poll conducted after the debate, 66 percent of participants told Telemundo they believed Trump won the debate. Only 34 percent of poll participants thought Biden made a better showing in Tuesday's debate."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/66-percent-spanish-speaking-americans-telemundo-poll-think-trump-just-won-debate-1535176

 

AND ...

 

 

 

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I don't think Trump did any damage to himself or lost anyone. Then again, I don't think Biden did either. The problem is, it was so devoid of substance and no one learned anything. Then again, at this point ...everyone knows more or less what they're going to do and how they're going to vote. 

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15 minutes ago, Drew said:

I don't think Trump did any damage to himself or lost anyone. Then again, I don't think Biden did either. The problem is, it was so devoid of substance and no one learned anything. Then again, at this point ...everyone knows more or less what they're going to do and how they're going to vote. 


Your elections are won and lost by swaying a handful of swing voters in states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. I don't think these debates change much; Republicans will still vote Republican, Democrats still vote Democrat, and the swing voters will most likely base their decision around how well things are going in their state. No doubt the incumbent Trump has that advantage (the devil you know vs. the one you don't), even though polling is showing pretty large leads for Biden in most swing states. 

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3 hours ago, ButterflyEffect said:


Your elections are won and lost by swaying a handful of swing voters in states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. I don't think these debates change much; Republicans will still vote Republican, Democrats still vote Democrat, and the swing voters will most likely base their decision around how well things are going in their state. No doubt the incumbent Trump has that advantage (the devil you know vs. the one you don't), even though polling is showing pretty large leads for Biden in most swing states. 

 

Really? This is the tip of the iceberg. And ... count me, in this group. As well as many progressives

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Someone648 said:

 

 

Furthermore - Antifa is an ideological movement, it is not an organization. Period. That's it. Nothing else to that. If it's actually an organization then somebody owes me a ton of money for sharing several of their ideals and talking about it online, but it's a shame that there are still people that keep using the same racist dog whistles about Soros, etc. to everyone and everything that doesn't align with their views.

 

 

 

Reality check .... Ideas & ideological movements, don't kill innocent people, nor burn down businesses. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    O.o

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1 hour ago, psterina said:

 

Really? This is the tip of the iceberg. And ... count me, in this group. As well as many progressives

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not a Democrat ideologue. I hate the wars both parties support, how neither party wants to do anything about health insurance and how both parties are corrupted by big donors. 

 

However, I would ask myself are these people in the videos compensated? You betcha! Look into how much money folks like Dave Rubin and Candace Owens have made since they "left the left". Its all about the almighty dollar with these types

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43 minutes ago, sneaky said:

I'm not a Democrat ideologue. I hate the wars both parties support, how neither party wants to do anything about health insurance and how both parties are corrupted by big donors. 

 

However, I would ask myself are these people in the videos compensated? You betcha! Look into how much money folks like Dave Rubin and Candace Owens have made since they "left the left". Its all about the almighty dollar with these types

 

President Trump, has most certainly done things, regarding Health Care. First of all, he took away, the individual mandate, which charged those of us, who don't want health ins (that includes me). Thank goodness, for THAT. Also ... the costs of prescription drugs, will go down, quite a bit . Their profits, will be MUCH LESS. Why do you think, the Corporate/Pharmaceutical owned "news" is coming after him, with everything they can? They will lose BILLIONS.  Yes, Billions

 

Regarding the people on the videos. Sorry, but you just saying, that they are being compensated .... is just  :mellow:  . Bring proof. And, there's a ton of people. It's not like they each have tons of videos. They each made ONE video, explaining, why they left the democrat party. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, psterina said:

 

President Trump, has most certainly done things, regarding Health Care. First of all, he took away, the individual mandate, which charged those of us, who don't want health ins (that includes me). Thank goodness, for THAT. Also ... the costs of prescription drugs, will go down, quite a bit . Their profits, will be MUCH LESS. Why do you think, the Corporate/Pharmaceutical owned "news" is coming after him, with everything they can? They will lose BILLIONS.  Yes, Billions

 

Regarding the people on the videos. Sorry, but you just saying, that they are being compensated .... is just  :mellow:  . Bring proof. And, there's a ton of people. It's not like they each have tons of videos. They each made ONE video, explaining, why they left the democrat party. 

 

 

There should be a mandate. If/when something happens and you cant afford the medical bills you will pass it off on to everyone else. Just like how it works in car insurance.

 

I have not seen  an evidence that prescription prices are going down.

 

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23 minutes ago, sneaky said:

There should be a mandate. If/when something happens and you cant afford the medical bills you will pass it off on to everyone else. Just like how it works in car insurance.

 

I have not seen  an evidence that prescription prices are going down.

 

Exactly. The mandate sucks for those who didn't want healthcare through ACA and didn't get it through work, but unfortunately, its needed in the current system. Which is why so many people want a single payer system. It alleviates the need for a mandate and covers everyone without an unnecessary middle man. Everyone pays for it via taxes and everyone is covered. No mandate fee, no profit making middleman.

 

We most likely won't. Trump has been touting lower drug prices since 2016 but has done nothing about it. Now, a month before the election where he's not looking too great in the polls, he pulls this Executive Order out of his ass in hopes to pull back some of his lost support. If drug prices DO become lower, then great, I will gladly give Trump props for that. However, the guy has been full of shit his entire presidency, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

 

As for the "I left the left" trend that was started a couple of years ago or whenever, it's pretty easy to claim you were "left" then make some random video on youtube claiming you are no longer a democrat/leftist because of X, y, and z with zero evidence to back up that you were ever "left". I could go out tomorrow and make a "I left the right" video and pull out all these anti-conservative talking points, but if I was never right wing, then what does it matter? To be fair, I didn't watch all the ones posted as I have no desire to watch someone ramble on about their political views for 45 minutes, but a few of them I skimmed through and some of the talking points are straight up right wing propaganda nonsense. One of them the girl claimed that the Democrats were all "Marxists and communists"...I'm sorry, what? lol No way anyone who was ever a democrat/left winger really believes that nonsense. Yes, Marxists and Communists would be considered "left wing" but to pretend like they have any major role within the party is hilarious. The hardcore communists and marxists are a small, vocal minority and openly despise pretty much all currently serving politicians apart from maybe Bernie, but many considered him "the compromise" as he is much further right than that ideology as Bernie isn't an anti-capitalist. 

Edited by Smoochy
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4 hours ago, psterina said:

 

Really? This is the tip of the iceberg. And ... count me, in this group. As well as many progressives

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure everyone and their mothers is familiar with the #WalkAway movement and it still makes me laugh.

Looking at the testimonials on the website, the common thought process I see is "[Racism, Sexism, Discrimination, etc.] hasn't happened to me, so it doesn't exist!" and skimming through these videos, I see bizarre unfounded claims (shoutout to the guy who said he shared a political video to his Facebook before "coming out as a conservative" or whatever and "losing 500 friends within an hour."

 

Nothing says "I'M A FREE THINKER" like supposedly jumping from a "Democratic cult" to a Trump cult where you refuse to examine any of Trump's actions with a critical lens.

 

Do I believe these individuals are paid to make these videos? Absolutely not. They don't have enough money to pay all of these guys. (Although if they're willing to pay, I'll gladly spew some BS for a couple $100). I'd be surprised if they've convinced more than a couple hundred, maybe couple thousand. The majority of the people that care about the movement are already old conservatives or people like Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum, or the lovely folks down at OAN.

 

But do these videos practically read like they're scripted? Definitely. That's what happens when you follow what is essentially a cult :haha:

Maybe these people are drinking the "America has done no wrong and Trump is God and Democrats are the evils" Kool-Aid or maybe they're just doing it to feel special, but whatever it is - it doesn't mean much.


-

 

Also, I'm genuinely curious - if you don't mind me asking, what are the progressive ideals you have? I don't mean to sound like a gatekeeper of course, but I don't understand where you're identifying as a progressive while everything you seem to say backs up Trump, conservatives, or movements like these.

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10 minutes ago, Someone648 said:

 

Do I believe these individuals are paid to make these videos? Absolutely not. They don't have enough money to pay all of these guys. (Although if they're willing to pay, I'll gladly spew some BS for a couple $100). I'd be surprised if they've convinced more than a couple hundred, maybe couple thousand. The majority of the people that care about the movement are already old conservatives or people like Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum, or the lovely folks down at OAN.

 

 

I think what sneaky was getting at was that there are some pundits who have made a lot of money by being one of those "I was a liberal until I grew a brain" types (Dave Rubin, Candace Owens, Tim Pool, etc...) so some people are probably playing along in hopes of blowing up and becoming the next big "former left wing" commentator who posts all day on Twitter about how great Trump and the right are and how the left are nothing but a bunch of marxist, communist, snowflakes.

Edited by Smoochy
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2 minutes ago, Smoochy said:

I think what sneaky was getting at was that there are some pundits who have made a lot of money by being one of those "I was a liberal until I grew a brain" types (Dave Rubin, Candace Owens, Tim Pool, etc...) so some people are probably playing along in hopes of blowing up and becoming the next big "former left wing" commentator who posts all day on Twitter about how great Trump and the right are and how the left are nothing but a bunch of marxist, communist, snowflakes.

Oh! My mistake. Completely misread that.

But yes, I agree with that. It's really no secret that Candace Owens for one was one of them. Let's not forget she literally sued (and I believe won?) for racial discrimination back in 2008 and now basically denies every having experienced racism lol

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9 minutes ago, Someone648 said:

 

 

But do these videos practically read like they're scripted? Definitely. That's what happens when you follow what is essentially a cult :haha:

Maybe these people are drinking the "America has done no wrong and Trump is God and Democrats are the evils" Kool-Aid or maybe they're just doing it to feel special, but whatever it is - it doesn't mean much.


-

 

Also, I'm genuinely curious - if you don't mind me asking, what are the progressive ideals you have? I don't mean to sound like a gatekeeper of course, but I don't understand where you're identifying as a progressive while everything you seem to say backs up Trump, conservatives, or movements like these.

 

They all have their own story. To me, it isn't scripted at all, unless these are academy award winning level actors/actresses, which I'm sure, is not the case

 

Regarding me ... I am a minority, in every sense that you can think of. I'm for free speech, which the "cancel culture", is against. I'm for equal freedom, for everyone. I'm for equal opportunity for everyone (THAT has always been a left issue). I am for peace, not war (Biden is a war monger, Trump, is not. He is even nominated THREE times, for the  Nobel Peace Award. You don't know it, because the Corrupt , LYING "news" won't tell you), and the peace movement USED TO BE, a democrat issue. I'm for protecting women & children from slavery & abuse (human trafficking, slavery in all its' forms). Dems (except for Tulsi Gabbard) are deafeningly SILENT on this (you'll find out soon, why that is). Trump has an extensive, strong executive order, on this,. Also ... I'm for protecting Social Security & Medicare for seniors ( I'm sure all of us, have grandparents or parents, that have put into it, all their lives, and depend on this, as part, or all of their income). Biden, has come out ( and there is past footage to prove this, & I have seen it), saying that he wants to end Social Security. There's more .... but I have other things to do, than prove who I am. 

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21 minutes ago, Smoochy said:

I think what sneaky was getting at was that there are some pundits who have made a lot of money by being one of those "I was a liberal until I grew a brain" types (Dave Rubin, Candace Owens, Tim Pool, etc...) so some people are probably playing along in hopes of blowing up and becoming the next big "former left wing" commentator who posts all day on Twitter about how great Trump and the right are and how the left are nothing but a bunch of marxist, communist, snowflakes.

 

In your mind, they're just "playing along", cuz you don't want to face the truth :lmao:Also .... tell me, are Dave Rubin, Candace Owens, & Tim Pool, just "playing along"? You don't think, that they are going to vote, for who they say they are?

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5 minutes ago, mercfan3 said:

Dude - again. You are using youtube as a source. Youtube. 

 

Not a dude. YouTube has the biggest "news " sources on it, as well as independent users, of all sorts.  They're not bought and paid for, by corporations & Big Pharma, like your "LYING NEWS".  You can try your "censoring tactic", of ridicule, but ....   it's not going to work. Nice try, though 

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3 hours ago, psterina said:

 

Not a dude. YouTube has the biggest "news " sources on it, as well as independent users, of all sorts.  They're not bought and paid for, by corporations & Big Pharma, like your "LYING NEWS".  You can try your "censoring tactic", of ridicule, but ....   it's not going to work. Nice try, though 

Why are only independent conservative news sources the ones you classify as “real news”? Why not The Rational National, The Humanist Report, or Secular Talk?

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1 hour ago, psterina said:

 

Regarding me ... I am a minority, in every sense that you can think of. I'm for free speech, which the "cancel culture", is against. I'm for equal freedom, for everyone. I'm for equal opportunity for everyone (THAT has always been a left issue). I am for peace, not war (Biden is a war monger, Trump, is not. He is even nominated THREE times, for the  Nobel Peace Award. You don't know it, because the Corrupt , LYING "news" won't tell you), and the peace movement USED TO BE, a democrat issue. I'm for protecting women & children from slavery & abuse (human trafficking, slavery in all its' forms). Dems (except for Tulsi Gabbard) are deafeningly SILENT on this (you'll find out soon, why that is). Trump has an extensive, strong executive order, on this,. Also ... I'm for protecting Social Security & Medicare for seniors ( I'm sure all of us, have grandparents or parents, that have put into it, all their lives, and depend on this, as part, or all of their income). Biden, has come out ( and there is past footage to prove this, & I have seen it), saying that he wants to end Social Security. There's more .... but I have other things to do, than prove who I am. 

...And I have a week of vacation from work with nowhere to go bc of Covid so Imma respond (WOW THIS TURNED OUT WAY LONGER THAN I THOUGHT LOL)

So for several parts, I absolutely agree. Anti-war, free speech, protecting/helping children (quite literally the field I work in), and protecting SS/Medicare (one of my biggest complaints about Joe)

 

A couple things I'd like to point out though:

-Cancel culture - does it exist and is it really the opposite of freedom of speech? I think the way to answer that would be weighing out whether or not the "canceled" people actually face real-life repercussions. We obviously have annoying stan/k-pop accounts starting a new hashtag on Twitter every 25 minutes out of boredom, but that's not where I see actual "cancel culture."

Reminder that freedom of speech protects your speech from legal repercussions and nothing else. I wanna use Shane Gillis as an example for my reasoning... Shane Gillis got hired then fired from SNL in less than a week (this was last year) because people deemed his previous content super offensive. That's the extent of his "canceling." NBC heard feedback and made a decision to not go through with his employment as a result. He's not facing any consequences for that - he's responsible for whatever he said. No one was threatening to torch 30 Rockefeller Center based on his hiring, maybe a few unruly people messaged him a death threat or two but that hardly means anything in the grand scheme of things about the current climate of the country. "Cancel Culture," in my opinion, is just a word that the media uses to point out when somebody's getting criticized for something they've done or said or holding them accountable. And the worst part about this misinterpretation is that people suck at responding to it. Blackface somehow became a point of contention again back in the summer. How did companies respond? We got a bunch of TV episodes pulled off of streaming services (Always Sunny, 30 Rock, Scrubs, etc.) instead of doing anything to address the issue. Not a single person asked for that - they want things to be addressed and give some signal of change, not erasing history.

Furthermore, the "victims" of cancel culture rarely face long-term repercussions to their career unless the law catches up with them (looking at you, R. Kelly!). Also worth noting that as much as the Republicans and conservatives looooove to talk about free speech/complain about cancel culture, they do a pretty damn good job at cancelling and opposing free speech themselves. The Dixie Chicks are barely making their full comeback some 16/17 years later and still get crap, and the NFL is too much of a beast to actually "cancel" but you still have so many people on the right complaining/refusing to watch years after Kaep took a knee, etc.

 

(So somehow I went off on a huge tangent here but I liked what I wrote so I'm keeping it up lol - TL;DR I don't see anything wrong with holding people accountable; no one's rights are ever really threatened unless they do something legally wrong like R. Kelly. Cancel culture isn't necessarily a creation of the left, and the media is responsible for hyping it up, but it's not indicative of any political movement in particular when both sides do it - and the right frankly cancels more successfully)

 

-Trafficking/abuse - So I'm aware that you've fallen down this rabbit hole based on some of your previous posts and I'm not sure if it's worth diving deep into it, so just to point out some stuff off the top of my head - a large percentage of missing children/youth are runaways. I know stats vary, but I believe it's something around 90% are runaways and less than 5% are abudctions - with the majority of this 5% being family-related. Also, I'm close with people involved in a program aimed at reconnecting homeless individuals with loved ones after several. In several of these cases, these people were listed as missing in their teens/presumed dead by their family members. Not really a stat there, just a personal observation.

Now none of this is to say that trafficking and kidnapping aren't issues of importance. In fact I'm willing to agree that there's quite a few of the "higher-ups" involved in child trafficking (we know Epstein didn't kill himself right?), but the recent sudden interest from conservatives in child trafficking is stemming from conspiracies like QAnon which are just... vehemently false and are just trying to paint Trump in the right. It's super bizarre. Trump and Clinton were both buddies with Epstein - neither of them are probably in the right there. They just keep hyping up the idea of "THE CHILDREN ARE IN DANGER" as if there aren't already organization/institutions working on it. I remember earlier last month there were a bunch of articles and websites hyping up something about 30-something kids being found in Georgia and saying that mainstream media not covering it was proof of fake news being in on trafficking or something? If I remember correctly, not only was that false - but y'all realize that these operations happen often right? There's not enough time in the 24-hr news cycle to talk about every child labeled as "missing" when they're recovered. Some of them get recovered in just days and, going back to the 90+% thing I mentioned earlier, more often than not it's nothing nefarious.

I'd love to hear support from the people concerned about the safety of these children talking about children at the border though!

 

 

And finally, just really quick:

Democratic Party =/= Progressivism/Socialism/Anything like that. It's just capitalism/corporate centrism. The U.S. doesn't have a legitimate left party. Joe's opposition to Medicare for All and preference to get rid of Social Security probably say enough about that.

 

 

I appreciate your response! I do understand that sometimes I can come off as rude/too sarcastic but I do enjoy engaging in these conversations/defending my point. I agree with a lot of your points, I just feel we're coming from very different trains of thought...

Edited by Someone648
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