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The American Politics Thread!

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that poll is right, yes we need to stop the looters and ones causing trouble but when you see the vids of cops going after the peaceful ones that are doing nothing wrong that is just as bad. and what Trump did for the photo op is terrible, pepper spraying the peaceful crowd so he could take a pic

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Posted (edited)

The whole thing is disturbing. 

 

First - white people co-opting Black Lives Matter for their own purpose...horrible. And I'm talking about both the looters and the people trying to change the message of Black Lives Matter from one about race issues to one about capitalism. (I'm looking at you Elizabeth Warren..) A significant portion of the destruction is being taken place in black and brown areas, and it's by white people. That doesn't help. 

 

Racism isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. It's a white people on both sides of the aisle issue. It shows up in different ways. We need to face our demons as a country. 

 

That being said, Donald Trump has made it worse. Racist language and actions that used to be considered shameful, ignorant, and abhorrent are now common - again..on both sides of the aisle. Hate crimes have risen under Donald,  his executive actions have made things worse. I was horrified after he won because I saw this coming. He showed who he was and what he stood for during his campaign. 

 

Second - white people making like the rioting is a bigger issue than the systemic oppression of black people by the criminal justice system...and even bigger problem. Even if Black Lives Matter was the root cause of the majority of the riots  (they aren't) - our country has given black people plenty of legitimate reasons to riot. White people didn't like Kaepernick peacefully taking a knee. White people didn't like Martin Luther King Jr.'s peaceful protests either (and responded with the violence that we are seeing from police today.) The system is not supposed to like protests. 

 

Third - our President is a disgusting piece of garbage. I've moved from "Yea, I'll vote for Joe" to "I'm gonna actively support, campaign for and donate to Joe." I don't care if he's a senile almost Republican figure - he's a decent human being. We need that back in the White House. Desperately. Hiding in a bunker..Gassing his own people for a damn photoshoot, at a church he wasn't welcomed in. 

 

Let us not forget, that white protesters carrying weapons were allowed into state capitals. And they were protesting because they couldn't get a haircut. Yet police respond to "Please stop killing us" with more violence. They somehow manage to take out mass shooters alive, but a man selling cigarettes and a man who may have spent a counterfeit twenty dollar bill end up dead. On camera. 

 

It's obvious and gross. 

Edited by mercfan3

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18 minutes ago, mercfan3 said:

The whole thing is disturbing. 

 

First - white people co-opting Black Lives Matter for their own purpose...horrible. And I'm talking about both the looters and the people trying to change the message of Black Lives Matter from one about race issues to one about capitalism. (I'm looking at you Elizabeth Warren..) A significant portion of the destruction is being taken place in black and brown areas, and it's by white people. That doesn't help. 

 

Racism isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. It's a white people on both sides of the aisle issue. It shows up in different ways. We need to face our demons as a country. 

 

That being said, Donald Trump has made it worse. Racist language and actions that used to be considered shameful, ignorant, and abhorrent are now common - again..on both sides of the aisle. Hate crimes have risen under Donald,  his executive actions have made things worse. I was horrified after he won because I saw this coming. He showed who he was and what he stood for during his campaign. 

 

Second - white people making like the rioting is a bigger issue than the systemic oppression of black people by the criminal justice system...and even bigger problem. Even if Black Lives Matter was the root cause of the majority of the riots  (they aren't) - our country has given black people plenty of legitimate reasons to riot. White people didn't like Kaepernick peacefully taking a knee. White people didn't like Martin Luther King Jr.'s peaceful protests either (and responded with the violence that we are seeing from police today.) The system is not supposed to like protests. 

 

Third - our President is a disgusting piece of garbage. I've moved from "Yea, I'll vote for Joe" to "I'm gonna actively support, campaign for and donate to Joe." I don't care if he's a senile almost Republican figure - he's a decent human being. We need that back in the White House. Desperately. Hiding in a bunker..Gassing his own people for a damn photoshoot, at a church he wasn't welcomed in. 

 

Let us not forget, that white protesters carrying weapons were allowed into state capitals. And they were protesting because they couldn't get a haircut. Yet police respond to "Please stop killing us" with more violence. They somehow manage to take out mass shooters alive, but a man selling cigarettes and a man who may have spent a counterfeit twenty dollar bill end up dead. On camera. 

 

It's obvious and gross. 

First off, I love your contributions to this thread. We've always had incredibly great discussions. That's why I want to pose a question as social media has become a place in the last week or so where tensions have boiled over. The boyfriend posted something about racism and someone responded to him asserting that people of color cannot be racist because racism is more of a systemic thing against folks that wield the least amount of power and clout in society. My question is, do you agree with this? 

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33 minutes ago, Drew said:

First off, I love your contributions to this thread. We've always had incredibly great discussions. That's why I want to pose a question as social media has become a place in the last week or so where tensions have boiled over. The boyfriend posted something about racism and someone responded to him asserting that people of color cannot be racist because racism is more of a systemic thing against folks that wield the least amount of power and clout in society. My question is, do you agree with this? 

 

Yes.

 

But it's a discussion of definitions. Racism is systemic. Black people can be prejudice against white people. But they are not the group in power. There are not societal structures against white people from black people. 

 

IMO, one of the biggest reasons why we have failed to heal our country's race issues is somehow, we have made calling someone or something racist worse than racism. People can say or do racist things - and then deny it had anything to do with race until they are blue in the face...instead of just listening to why what they did was racist. 

 

As white people, we don't have any idea what it is like to be black (or a person of color) in America. They face injustices in things that we just take for granted. Even ten years into a social justice focused education..I learn new things everyday that just highlight my privilege. 

 

I work in a school where a majority of the students are people of color. The lack of resources they have, and traumatic experiences they faced..unbelievable. 

 

I'm very close to a student who is absolutely brilliant. Throughout the year (pre-covid) I would periodically test his intelligence. Stuff like, throwing up LSAT questions on the board, to see if he can do them. (He did first try, in what typically takes pre-law students 15 minutes..he did it in 30 seconds). He is also one of the kindest human beings I have ever met. If he had half of the opportunities and privileges I had, he'd be heading off to an Ivy league school. Instead, I'm working my ass off to help him graduate. (He has essentially made up 9 classes in this semester, with three more to go). He has severe PTSD and trauma related issues which make it hard for him to focus and even go to class..part of the reason is because when he was 12 years old, he was in a house that was raided by police. The police shot one of his best friends (who had nothing on him, not that it matters because he was a teenager..), and then proceeded to arrest the teenager as he died. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with this kid's experiences. He tells me stories, and the only thing I can compare it to is the experiences of a child soldier. And this is right in our backyard...I'm talking about the experiences of kids in Springfield, MA. And it is a direct result of white people's oppression of POC and immigrants. 

 

Take these types of experiences into consideration when thinking about whether POC are prejudice. 

 

 

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Check out this f*cking scum pig. Placed on administrative duty until everything blows over, then they'll be back on the street again.

Pathetic.

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Looks like another case of attempted murder that won't be investigated. I love that in the report on the protests the police said one person tripped and injured themselves. "Tripped".

Makes you wonder how much the police have lied about before this past week that they've gotten away with because there was no video proof.

Lock these pigs up.

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There are reports of demands to “Defund the Police.” In other words, no more cops! I think you all probably know what I think about that idea. How about you? I think there are probably at least one or two here who would be fine with it. I heard they’ve actually had meetings to discuss this in NYC, but I don’t know the details. I’m not taking it seriously enough to research it at this time.  

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:

There are reports of demands to “Defund the Police.” In other words, no more cops! I think you all probably know what I think about that idea. How about you? I think there are probably at least one or two here who would be fine with it. I heard they’ve actually had meetings to discuss this in NYC, but I don’t know the details. I’m not taking it seriously enough to research it at this time.  

no cause there are many good cops out there  look at the ones marching with the protesters. however the bad cops out there actully need to be held accoutble if the killing or brutailty is unjsut. cause just firing isnt enough they just get jobs elsewhere. If more were held accoutable that deserve to be  we wouldnt get what get got now.  I mean to the ones that want it defunded I ask then who would you call if you were in trouble or your life is in danger. 

Edited by bswanson

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, bswanson said:

no cause there are many good cops out there  look at the ones marching with the protesters. however the bad cops out there actully need to be held accoutble if the killing or brutailty is unjsut. cause just firing isnt enough they just get jobs elsewhere. If more were held accoutable that deserve to be  we wouldnt get what get got now.  I mean to the ones that want it defunded I ask then who would you call if you were in trouble or your life is in danger. 


If we didn’t need them, I would say get rid of all of them, and save the money, but that’s not realistic. We would have chaos within hours. Someone (probably a gang or the mafia) would still be in charge, and make their own rules for you and I to follow, or else. 

Edited by TeamAudra

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Posted (edited)

Actually, Black Lives Matter supports defunding the police. I noticed John Legend does too, but he can afford private security. 
 

m6TBHI1.jpg

Edited by TeamAudra

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TeamAudra said:

There are reports of demands to “Defund the Police.” In other words, no more cops! I think you all probably know what I think about that idea. How about you? I think there are probably at least one or two here who would be fine with it. I heard they’ve actually had meetings to discuss this in NYC, but I don’t know the details. I’m not taking it seriously enough to research it at this time.  


For as good as Cuomo did with Covid - he has been pathetic with this situation. (As has De Blasio). 
 

There definitely aren’t any legitimate calls to end the police. NYC has behaved in quite the opposite manner. Maybe some college kids are talking about it. (which, btw..sane people don’t want that)

 

In fact, I’d argue the opposite. Pay them more - but make more race based education mandatory. (Along with more training than the ten weeks at the police academy.)Demilitarize. Give them shorter hours. De stigmatized and supply them with adequate mental health care. Body cameras are mandatory. Make an independent review council for cases of police misconduct or brutality (instead of having the cop’s prosecutor buddy decide if  there is a case against a cop) And rid the problematic elements of the police union.

 

there are so many ways to reform..

 

edit: that being said, what some people are saying by defund is to cut the budget. That can be reasonable depending on the size of the police budget and what they use the money for..

Edited by mercfan3

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, mercfan3 said:


For as good as Cuomo did with Covid - he has been pathetic with this situation. (As has De Blasio). 
 

There definitely aren’t any legitimate calls to end the police. NYC has behaved in quite the opposite manner. Maybe some college kids are talking about it. (which, btw..sane people don’t want that)

 

In fact, I’d argue the opposite. Pay them more - but make more race based education mandatory. (Along with more training than the ten weeks at the police academy.)Demilitarize. Give them shorter hours. De stigmatized and supply them with adequate mental health care. Body cameras are mandatory. Make an independent review council for cases of police misconduct or brutality (instead of having the cop’s prosecutor buddy decide if  there is a case against a cop) And rid the problematic elements of the police union.

 

there are so many ways to reform..

 

edit: that being said, what some people are saying by defund is to cut the budget. That can be reasonable depending on the size of the police budget and what they use the money for..


LOL, did you see my post above? John Legend and BLM must not be sane then. This is why Voice contestants who have no idea what they’re getting into shouldn’t be posting BLM stuff. Say how they feel about the situation without appearing to support an organization  they know nothing about. Now, if they agree with that agenda, fine. Post away. I doubt any of them are that radical. 

Edited by TeamAudra

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Posted (edited)

Here are two members of the Minneapolis City Council talking about it. There may be more than just them, but I don’t feel like digging that deep right now. There are no conservatives on the City Council. They can basically do whatever they want. 
 

 

Edited by TeamAudra

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Posted (edited)

As I said, BLM is using “defunding the police” in a highly different manner than you are suggesting (for the most part. Every group has its extremist). 

 

And those city council people both need to come out harshly at what has happened - and aren’t suggesting we get rid of public safety officials and let society run wild. Maybe here out their ideas and details of reform before assuming..”a transformative new model of public safety” doesn’t mean ending public safety. 

 

as I said, no one sane is suggesting that society should just run wild.

Edited by mercfan3

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How can you - as a peer of Booker and Harris - look them in the eye at this time (or ever) and argue against an anti-lynching Bill.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, mercfan3 said:

As I said, BLM is using “defunding the police” in a highly different manner than you are suggesting (for the most part. Every group has its extremist). 

 

And those city council people both need to come out harshly at what has happened - and aren’t suggesting we get rid of public safety officials and let society run wild. Maybe here out their ideas and details of reform before assuming..”a transformative new model of public safety” doesn’t mean ending public safety. 

 

as I said, no one sane is suggesting that society should just run wild.


So, I shouldn’t take seriously the word “dismantle?” I don’t believe it’s just talk. The literally want to eliminate the PD, and replace it with something else entirely different. Do I think it will happen? No, I don’t think their constituents will let them. If it wasn’t on their social media accounts, I’d probably be accused of being a conspiracy theorist. 

Edited by TeamAudra

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Posted (edited)

The police - as it functions now - needs to drastically change. That is obvious. 
 

Last night we have videos of them:

-shoving and injuring a 75 year old man

- telling a group of white people to hide in a building because they were going to tear gas protestors

- kneeling on protestors necks

- targeting/destroying/ tear gassing Medic Stations. 
 

I could go on at the horrors. Society obviously needs people to protect and serve for public safety..but the cops are acting..and have always acted like..the kids in the Stanford Prison Experiment..that isn’t protecting and serving their community. 


Here is a thread with 300 examples of police brutality:

 

 

Edited by mercfan3

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Posted (edited)

Even if “defund” just means reduce funding (something the Minneapolis City Council had wanted to do prior to recent events), that would mean less money for the race based education, body cameras and mental health care you suggested, not to mention fewer cops on the streets, which would likely mean less safe neighborhoods. As liberal as Minneapolis is, they’ve had difficulty selling these ideas to their constituents, according to some of their recent tweets. The recent chaos and burning buildings won’t help them sell their  plan to the people. Like I’ve said before, I know these people very well. They have BLM signs in their yards, but they want safe neighborhoods. 

Edited by TeamAudra

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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-claims-10-to-15-percent-americans-just-not-very-good-people

 

Doesnt look like Biden learned much from Clinton or Romney. Although I agree partially with the sentiment I think some of those are from other parts of the political spectrum and some are just a political

 

Although in this case, I think Trump still might lose. I think he is actively tying to lose. I think he's a narc that came from an abusive father and thought this would bring him satisfaction. But he's realized he's too lazy and pampered for a job like this

 

 

 

 

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As it is right now, the law enforcement does not work to “protect and serve” the communities. And as the police were established in the US that’s never been their job. As it’s been shown since Ferguson reforms do not work and often serve to funnel in more funds to the police. There are still around a thousand people killed by police each year and that number often includes hundreds of black people. We have seen at the protests that police do not care to de-escalate situations or protests and are gleefully violent. And it’s not just one city or even one part of the country that has this issue, it is nationwide which means that fundamentally at its core there is something wrong with the institution of law enforcement in the United States. 
 

Even post “reforms” we still see a disproportionate number of stops, arrests, convictions, and time served by black and brown people. I’m on my phone right now so I won’t go into how the prisons in the US create legal systems of slavery and disenfranchisement instead of focusing on reform.

 

As for crimes people point out like rape, domestic violence, and murder, there are criminally low convictions for rapists and those who are domestic abusers. While most murder cases that don’t have a perpetrator in hand within the first 48 hours go unsolved.

 

And there are whole communities in the United States that aren’t policed: middle and upper class largely white suburban areas! 
 

There’s more but I’m on my phone. 

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Posted (edited)


 

——-

 

BTW, I did live in one of these neighborhoods (the worst in Minneapolis) for a couple years as a kid. I was only 9-10 years old, but I do know what it’s like. 

Edited by TeamAudra

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Here's a twitter thread on why #8CantWait calls for superficial reforms that have shown to not be effective in the departments that already have them employed:

 

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