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1 hour ago, bswanson said:

 

 

1 hour ago, bswanson said:

so i guess the virus knwos the differnce between a company with 100+ works and less then 100 cause why else is it only required to get the vax with 100+ emplyees and not a company with lets say 75 employess 


I don’t know, but let’s say you have a company with 75 employees and want to expand? What are you going to do? Probably wait for this to get decided in court, and if the mandate gets upheld, maybe you’ll just be content with 75 employees. The people making these decisions don’t care. 

Edited by TeamAudra
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12 hours ago, season1 said:

 

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1456252744835076113

 

 

The states are just waiting for the official decree from OSHA and the federal government and lawsuits will be filed. I guess we'll find out if the US is still a Constitutional Republic or it is now a banana republic.

 


you realize this is constitutional, right? 
 

the conservative court already held it up for big business. 
 

Small businesses that cross state lines will also be constitutional.

 

Historical bill passed last night. We’ll see a boost to Biden’s approval soon, and we just need the other one passed too. 
 

 

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10 hours ago, TeamAudra said:

 

That's horrible but you know this would be going on if we stayed in Afghanistan, right? Its just an awful culture. Islam is 700 years younger than Christianity and has the mindset that Christianity did 700 years ago. Its nothing America did

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On 11/4/2021 at 3:55 PM, TeamAudra said:

I don’t agree with Carville on many issues, but he often speaks the truth about his own party. He’s right! Democrats are annoying as hell. It’s pretty much the same thing Van Jones said the other night. Keep it up with the “woke” bullshit! :giggle:

 

 

 

Exactly. To the talking heads like Joy Ann Reid, please DO keep saying the things you are regarding Virginia voters that cast ballots for Youngkin. That is if it's more Tuesday nights you're looking for. 🙃

 

 

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6 hours ago, mercfan3 said:


you realize this is constitutional, right? 
 

the conservative court already held it up for big business. 
 

Small businesses that cross state lines will also be constitutional.

 

Historical bill passed last night. We’ll see a boost to Biden’s approval soon, and we just need the other one passed too. 
 

 

 

Kindly cite a decided court case that shows the vaccine mandates are constitutional.

 

OSHA issued its guidelines a day or so ago, and States are just beginning to sue the federal government. Today, as posted by TA above, a federal court of appeals issued a stay on Biden's mandate issued through OSHA.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-federal-appeals-court-issues-stay-bidens-vaccine-rule-us-companies-2021-11-06/

 

Quote

WASHINGTON, Nov 6 (Reuters) - A U.S. federal appeals court issued a stay Saturday freezing the Biden administration's efforts to require workers at U.S. companies with at least 100 employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 or be tested weekly, citing "grave statutory and constitutional" issues with the rule.

 

 

These legal challenges are gonna continue for months. Class action lawsuits are also ongoing with regards to vaccine mandates for healthcare workers and the military. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by season1
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You aren’t actually quoting that treasonous wack job, right Team Audra? 
 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-rejects-religious-challenge-maine-vaccine-mandate-2021-10-29/
 

 

Public safety > individual rights has been precedent for a while. (Gibbons set precedent, Jacobsen specifically cites vaccine mandates, and commerce clause via executive order would constitutionally allow President to do this.) 
 

the only case a company has, imo, is jurisdiction. As in, if the company’s business does not cross state lines, meaning the commerce clause does not apply, then I don’t think the Federal Government has the ability to do this - but at this point I doubt there is a company that doesn’t cross state lines given most small companies use the internet. 
 

 

Edited by mercfan3
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2 hours ago, mercfan3 said:

You aren’t actually quoting that treasonous wack job, right Team Audra? 
 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-rejects-religious-challenge-maine-vaccine-mandate-2021-10-29/
 

 

Public safety > individual rights has been precedent for a while. (Gibbons set precedent, Jacobsen specifically cites vaccine mandates, and commerce clause via executive order would constitutionally allow President to do this.) 
 

the only case a company has, imo, is jurisdiction. As in, if the company’s business does not cross state lines, meaning the commerce clause does not apply, then I don’t think the Federal Government has the ability to do this - but at this point I doubt there is a company that doesn’t cross state lines given most small companies use the internet. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

I knew you would cite that case. It's the business that implemented the requirements by their own decision and determination and if some employees do not agree with the company, they can look for other jobs.


This time, by using OSHA to FORCE businesses to institute a mandate, the business becomes an agent of the federal government. This time, practically all businesses are BULLIED by the government, so the 100s of millions employees have effectively no choice to find a different place of employment if they don't agree. You have put a proverbial gun to the head of the employee, forcing him to get an injection that he objects to for any reason, or else his family will starve to death.

 


The federal mandate through OSHA also runs afoul of the 10th amendment.

 

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

The federal government knows it's unconstitutional to outright issue a vaccine mandate for the entire country so they're using a regulatory agency to FORCE businesses to impose a mandate on their employees. 

 

That's why the states are suing the federal government. And that's why the  federal 5th Circuit Court of Appeals put a stay on the OSHA vaccine rule. 

 

Then there's the issue of bodily autonomy. If the government can dictate what medical procedure or treatment you HAVE to get using your employment as leverage, then the government owns your body and your life. 

 

One of the guys interviewed in this video thinks it's  a "resurgence of slavery."

https://gab.com/wideanglebrendon/posts/107230535934978832

 

EDIT:

As to "public safety", IF the vaccine protects against infection and spread of the virus, there might be an argument for it. But the covid vaccine does not protect you from getting infected nor prevent you from spreading the virus. In fact, natural immunity is more effective in preventing infection and thus would help in minimizing the spread of the virus. And natural immunity is acquired from getting infected and recovering from the virus.

 

If people want to get the vaccine, fine, that's their decision. If people refuse to get the vaccine because they already have natural immunity, or they're allergic to the ingredients, or their medical situation makes the vaccine dangerous to them, or because of their religious belief, or just because they don't want to, that's fine also. Let the people decide for themselves. Enough bullying.

Edited by season1
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1 hour ago, mercfan3 said:

You aren’t actually quoting that treasonous wack job, right Team Audra? 
 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-rejects-religious-challenge-maine-vaccine-mandate-2021-10-29/
 

 

Public safety > individual rights has been precedent for a while. (Gibbons set precedent, Jacobsen specifically cites vaccine mandates, and commerce clause via executive order would constitutionally allow President to do this.) 
 

the only case a company has, imo, is jurisdiction. As in, if the company’s business does not cross state lines, meaning the commerce clause does not apply, then I don’t think the Federal Government has the ability to do this - but at this point I doubt there is a company that doesn’t cross state lines given most small companies use the internet. 
 

 

Actually, Reuters is mischaracterizing what the court did. It issued a stay for both the Maine and NY challenges.

 

From Cornell Law School:

 

Stay of Proceedings

A ruling by a court to stop or suspend a proceeding or trial temporarily or indefinitely. A court may later lift the stay and continue the proceeding. Some stays are automatic, but others are up to judicial discretion.

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Big court win on Friday for DeSantis on school mask mandates and quarantining of healthy kids. There’s some good stuff in there, including…

 

“…Administrative Law Judge Bryan Newman found, based on the evidence presented, that “forcing asymptomatic children to wear masks in schools provides no significant barrier to the spread of COVID-19.” He criticized the counties’ expert witnesses who could not cite any data in Florida to support their universal mask opinions in school settings, while the Department of Health relied on “relevant data” from a case study of Florida schools during the 2020-2021 school year which showed no statistically significant difference between counties with mask mandates and other counties. In addition, the Department’s expert, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, presented “credible” testimony that “a child infected with COVID survives 99.997% of the time.” Judge Newman therefore concluded that the Department’s parental opt-out protocols are “safe” for children and “strike the right balance….”

 

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1 hour ago, season1 said:

 

 

 

 

I knew you would cite that case. It's the business that implemented the requirements by their own decision and determination and if some employees do not agree with the company, they can look for other jobs.


This time, by using OSHA to FORCE businesses to institute a mandate, the business becomes an agent of the federal government. This time, practically all businesses are BULLIED by the government, so the 100s of millions employees have effectively no choice to find a different place of employment if they don't agree. You have put a proverbial gun to the head of the employee, forcing him to get an injection that he objects to for any reason, or else his family will starve to death.

 


The federal mandate through OSHA also runs afoul of the 10th amendment.

 

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

The federal government knows it's unconstitutional to outright issue a vaccine mandate for the entire country so they're using a regulatory agency to FORCE businesses to impose a mandate on their employees. 

 

That's why the states are suing the federal government. And that's why the  federal 5th Circuit Court of Appeals put a stay on the OSHA vaccine rule. 

 

Then there's the issue of bodily autonomy. If the government can dictate what medical procedure or treatment you HAVE to get using your employment as leverage, then the government owns your body and your life. 

 

One of the guys interviewed in this video thinks it's  a "resurgence of slavery."

https://gab.com/wideanglebrendon/posts/107230535934978832

 

EDIT:

As to "public safety", IF the vaccine protects against infection and spread of the virus, there might be an argument for it. But the covid vaccine does not protect you from getting infected nor prevent you from spreading the virus. In fact, natural immunity is more effective in preventing infection and thus would help in minimizing the spread of the virus. And natural immunity is acquired from getting infected and recovering from the virus.

 

If people want to get the vaccine, fine, that's their decision. If people refuse to get the vaccine because they already have natural immunity, or they're allergic to the ingredients, or their medical situation makes the vaccine dangerous to them, or because of their religious belief, or just because they don't want to, that's fine also. Let the people decide for themselves. Enough bullying.

 

The recent one isn't the one that matters. It's just an example of the court already refusing to touch this because of Precedent. 

 

Again, Jacobsen says states have police power to protect public safety. 

Gibson specifically states that vaccine mandates are within that police power. 

 

So states can, without question, set Vaccine mandates. 

 

The commerce clause gives congress (and thus, the President under executive order) the ability to regulate commerce, ie...the federal government has the ability to regulate businesses that cross state lines or international borders. And thus we have the creation of OSHA. 

 

 

These are the key factors in determining if a federal mandate is constitutional - and although we haven't had one, all legal signs point to yes. A court ruling against the mandate would be weakening the commerce clause (something it doesn't do) or reversing Jacobsen and Gibson (not controversial rulings at all ), or a court would have to rule that Covid is not a public health emergency covered under OSHA - American deaths, the death rates, and vaccine effectiveness don't support this at all. (Hence, why vaccine mandates were constitutional in the first place) 

 

The irony here of course, is that the conservative court is very very likely not to fall on political lines here. Roe v. Wade was always in danger because conservative justices disagree with the original ruling (that there is a right to privacy and bodily autonomy inherent in the constitution), but generally speaking - conservative justices don't touch precedent. (And it's why Amy already held up the mask mandate)This is 100 year + precedent. 

 

edit: Lol at Florida trying to uphold a parent's rights to kill their kids..(and their teachers) How very Florida of them. 

 

fun fact, Republicans are dying at a rate of 5 to 1 compared to Dems..I wonder why. 

Edited by mercfan3
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We shall see what the court does. And we shall see what the people will do.

 

benjaminfranklin3-2x.jpg

 

 

BTW, nobody is "fully vaccinated" now that they approved the boosters. If you think you're not affected by the vaccine mandate because you already have your two doses, think again. "OSHA" could amend their rule to add booster compliance as a condition for employment. And whatever else "vaccine" or medical procedure or health requirement (one child per couple?) they deem "necessary" for "public safety." 

 

 

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It continues to amaze me that so many people decide right vs. wrong based on politics. If Trump were still President, and trying to implement vaccine mandates, liberals and the mainstream media would be outraged. Remember when so many liberals (including Kamala Harris) wouldn’t commit to taking the vaccine when he was President? It was “Trump’s vaccine.” It’s still the same vaccine! I would be equally opposed if a Republican President was doing this, even though I got the vaccine. Also, if I would have known back in June that natural immunity is many times stronger than the vaccine, I probably wouldn’t have gotten it, and I’m NOT anti-vaccine. 

Edited by TeamAudra
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12 minutes ago, TeamAudra said:

It continues to amaze me that so many people decide right vs. wrong based on politics. If Trump were still President, and trying to implement vaccine mandates, liberals and the mainstream media would be outraged. Remember when so many liberals (including Kamala Harris) wouldn’t commit to taking the vaccine when he was President? It was “Trump’s vaccine.” It’s still the same vaccine! I would be equally opposed if a Republican President was doing this, even though I got the vaccine. Also, if I would have known back in June that natural immunity is many times stronger than the vaccine, I probably wouldn’t have gotten it, and I’m NOT anti-vaccine. 

 

They try to conflate anti-mandate as anti-vaccine. And they call anyone who questions the narrative as a conspiracy theorist. Social media and mainstream media also try to silence doctors and scientists who raise questions about vaccine efficacy and promote natural immunity and covid treatments. The latest target of the cancel mob is Green Bay QB  Aaron Rodgers

 

But more and more people are pushing back against the mandates.

 

 

Edited by season1
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