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> Trayvon Martin
Famousgrl
post Mar 29th 2012, 9:51 PM
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Case closed. I just saw video of where the shooting/confrontation took place, and it's on a sidewalk behind the houses, down a long path. There's no way Trayvon was following Zimmerman to his truck. Trayvon was like three doors down from his house where he got shot, and it was a long-ass path before even getting near the road.

Ugh, I cannot believe the police didn't charge his *ss.

And Zimmerman's dad is pissing me off by saying "Trayvon was walking behind the houses" as if to still imply he was up to no good, when when you see video of the setting, you see that you have to walk behind the houses. That's where the sidewalk is to get to Trayvon's house. He was walking down a freakin' sidewalk. Ugh.

Btw, just breaking now, there's a new witness on Anderson Cooper right now:
QUOTE
On his show Thursday night, Anderson Cooper spoke to a new witness in the Trayvon Martin case. The witness, whose identity remains anonymous, described seeing “scuffling” and heard a “painful” scream. As many have been saying, the witness also said George Zimmerman seemed unharmed following the shooting.

Cooper asked, “Can you tell me what you saw and what you heard the night Trayvon Martin was killed?”

“It would have to be starting with hearing voices, but not seeing, but after the voices, opening the window, and seeing two men, or two people, on the ground. On top of each other,” he said. Asked what made him pay attention to the voices, the witness continued:

I saw two men on the ground, on top of each other, obviously thinking, okay something really horrible is happening. And at that point, not looking out the window, I heard a yell for help, and then I heard … another excruciating type of yell. It didn’t even almost sound like ‘help,’ it almost sounded so painful. But I wasn’t watching out the window. [...] Next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, on top of each other [...] I couldn’t see a lot of movement because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard gunshots, which to me, were more like pops.

Cooper said, “You say gunshots plural. Was there more than one, do you remember?” The witness replied, “It was more like a pop, and it definitely was more than one. So I don’t know if it was an echo or anything else, but it definitely made more than one pop.”

After the shot, he said, one man got up. And then he “was walking toward where I was watching, and I could see him a little bit clearer, and I could see that it was a Hispanic man. And he was, um, you know, he didn’t appear hurt, or anything else. He just kind of seemed very [...] worried or whatever.

He couldn’t say whether the shot went off during the scuffle, but added, “I wouldn’t say it was a lot of movement when I heard the shot.”

Logically, he said, he’d guess Zimmerman was the man on the top, but he could not say for sure since it was dark outside.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/new-trayvon-mar...ht-of-shooting/

Logically, because Zimmerman popped right up, and the blood-curling yelling for help stopped once Trayvon was permanently silenced. noexpression.gif

lmao@Zimmerman's brother saying that Zimmerman felt like he was gonna lose consciousness. So he just popped right up like it was nothing after that?! rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 29th 2012, 9:52 PM


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Famousgrl
post Mar 29th 2012, 10:05 PM
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lol, a NYC paramedic is on MSNBC, and he said that Zimmerman's story sounds bogus. He said that any repeated bashing of a head into cement usually results in loss of consciousness and sh*t like that.


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Famousgrl
post Mar 29th 2012, 10:20 PM
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Wow.

QUOTE
Trayvon Martin's Email And Facebook Accounts Allegedly Hacked By White Supremacist

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The racist smear campaign against Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teen shot to death last month in Florida, has reached a new level of ghoulishness. A white supremacist hacker says he's broken into Martin's email and social networking accounts, and leaked his private Facebook messages. We've been able to confirm that at least one email account that belonged to Martin was cracked.

The hacker, who goes by the name Klanklannon, posted what he said were Martin's private Facebook messages to the politics section (NSFW) of the anarchic message board 4chan—called "/pol/"—Tuesday afternoon at around noon. The messages were posted on four slides, strategically arranged to back up the insane racist argument that Trayvon was a Scary Black Teenager and so somehow deserved to be killed by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman that night.

A slide titled "Trayvon Martin Used Marijuana Habitually," features an exchange between Trayvon and a friend about getting high. Another slide, "Trayvon Martin was a Drug Dealer" features Facebook messages and photos that supposedly prove Martin dealt drugs, including a picture of Martin posing "aggressively with a large amount of cash in his hand." It's impossible to verify the hacked messages' authenticity—like other anti-Trayvon Martin propaganda, they're probably a mix of real and fake content— but they are now being passed around as gospel among the racist underbelly of the internet, including message boards like the neo-Nazi hive Stormfront, which Klanklannon apparently frequents.

In addition to the Facebook messages, Klanklannon posted a list of usernames and passwords for Martin's social media and email accounts as proof of his exploits. All of the passwords had been changed to racist slurs. (Gmail: "niggerniggernigger" Twitter: "coontrayvonnigger")

"I realize that some of this information might be to (sic) extreme to believe," Klanklannon writes in a copy of the original 4chan thread we've obtained. "That's why I offer you evidence. Here are my sources."

The list included login details for Martin's Gmail, Yahoo, MySpace, and Twitter accounts. A source who came across the 4chan post when it was live was able to use the information to log onto Martin's Gmail account Tuesday night. Our source panicked upon seeing that trolls had started using the account to send emails under Martin's name, and deleted the account. (An email sent to Martin's Gmail address bounced back today; Martin's Twitter account has also been deactivated. His MySpace page is still up, showing that the last login was Tuesday.)

On 4chan, Klanklannon made clear their intention to smear Trayvon. Klanklannon introduces the post with, "Today /pol/, tomorrow CNN." One 4chan user told us Klanklannon had been attempting to break into Martin's accounts for days, posting periodic updates to the board.

"Where did all the liberals go?," Klanklannon taunted after posting his slides. "Did they run off because they can't handle the facts?"

But Klanklannon included none of Martin's emails in his leak, because the picture they paint is of a normal high school junior preparing for college. A screenshot of Trayvon's Gmail inbox our source provided us is heartbreaking. Martin apparently used his Gmail account for his college search, and it's filled with emails about upcoming SAT tests and scholarship applications. ("Trayvon, now is the best time to take the SATs!") One email included the results of a career aptitude test, our source said. It "talked about his interest in aeronautics and stuff."

Klanklannon has proven nothing more than the depths to which the racist amateur detectives who have spent days obsessing over every aspect of Trayvon Martin's short life will sink in their horrible quest to vet a dead teenager.

http://gawker.com/5897485/white-supremacis...messages-online

sad.gif @ the college part.

lmao@white people complaining about the media using a "nice" pic of Trayvon. I guess in addition to everything else, black people don't even deserve that now.

This post sums it up:
QUOTE
Sure, next time a white girl goes missing we'll use some pics of her getting drunk at a party
Next time a white guy gets killed we'll use dick shots he sent to his girlfriend

How about this picture, you know, the picture on his facebook where he looks like the same boy just a few years older?

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Happy now?

That's him with his father, by the way. A father who is grieving while all of this pointless, victim made to be the pariah, bs is going on.


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Stormiya
post Mar 30th 2012, 11:55 AM
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Way sad about that 13 year old kid. sad.gif

WTF at Zimmerman's dad. What a POS. Like seriously your son forgot to include a death threat in his report? And then HE has the audacity to accuse Trayvon's Girlfriend of wanting fame and why did she wait so long? Why the freak did YOU wait so long? Why wasn't that threat kept a secret til now? and whuy didn't the reporter ask that? Why didn't she mention that Phone records prove the Girlfriend's story. I mean REALLY!? What a POS.


I am glad this whole BS smear campaign is back firing on these idiots though.

So since this was a pathway where the scuffle happened was there even a curb for Zimmerman's head to get bashed on?

I love that none of these witnesses support that POS Zimmerman's story.

EDIT NVM That witness just said it was a path inbetween the middle of grass. No curb. Didn't Zimmerman say it was a curb?

This post has been edited by Stormiya: Mar 30th 2012, 11:56 AM


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Stormiya
post Mar 30th 2012, 12:44 PM
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Great Article in the Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/opinion/...p;smid=fb-share


QUOTE
The Gated Community Mentality
By RICH BENJAMIN
Published: March 29, 2012


AS a black man who has been mugged at gunpoint by a black teenager late at night, I am not naïve: I know firsthand the awkward conundrums surrounding race, fear and crime. Trayvon Martin’s killing at the hands of George Zimmerman baffles this nation. While the youth’s supporters declare in solidarity “We are all Trayvon,” the question is raised, to what extent is the United States also all George Zimmerman?
Under assault, I didn’t dream of harming my teenage assailant, let alone taking his life.

Mr. Zimmerman reacted very differently, taking out his handgun and shooting the youth in cold blood.

What gives?

Welcome to gate-minded America.

From 2007 to 2009, I traveled 27,000 miles, living in predominantly white gated communities across this country to research a book. I threw myself into these communities with gusto — no Howard Johnson or Motel 6 for me. I borrowed or rented residents’ homes. From the red-rock canyons of southern Utah to the Waffle-House-pocked exurbs of north Georgia, I lived in gated communities as a black man, with a youthful style and face, to interview and observe residents.

The perverse, pervasive real-estate speak I heard in these communities champions a bunker mentality. Residents often expressed a fear of crime that was exaggerated beyond the actual criminal threat, as documented by their police department’s statistics. Since you can say “gated community” only so many times, developers hatched an array of Orwellian euphemisms to appease residents’ anxieties: “master-planned community,” “landscaped resort community,” “secluded intimate neighborhood.”

No matter the label, the product is the same: self-contained, conservative and overzealous in its demands for “safety.” Gated communities churn a vicious cycle by attracting like-minded residents who seek shelter from outsiders and whose physical seclusion then worsens paranoid groupthink against outsiders. These bunker communities remind me of those Matryoshka wooden dolls. A similar-object-within-a-similar-object serves as shelter; from community to subdivision to house, each unit relies on staggered forms of security and comfort, including town authorities, zoning practices, private security systems and personal firearms.

Residents’ palpable satisfaction with their communities’ virtue and their evident readiness to trumpet alarm at any given “threat” create a peculiar atmosphere — an unholy alliance of smugness and insecurity. In this us-versus-them mental landscape, them refers to new immigrants, blacks, young people, renters, non-property-owners and people perceived to be poor.

Mr. Zimmerman’s gated community, a 260-unit housing complex, sits in a racially mixed suburb of Orlando, Fla. Mr. Martin’s “suspicious” profile amounted to more than his black skin. He was profiled as young, loitering, non-property-owning and poor. Based on their actions, police officers clearly assumed Mr. Zimmerman was the private property owner and Mr. Martin the dangerous interloper. After all, why did the police treat Mr. Martin like a criminal, instead of Mr. Zimmerman, his assailant? Why was the black corpse tested for drugs and alcohol, but the living perpetrator wasn’t?

Across the United States, more than 10 million housing units are in gated communities, where access is “secured with walls or fences,” according to 2009 Census Bureau data. Roughly 10 percent of the occupied homes in this country are in gated communities, though that figure is misleadingly low because it doesn’t include temporarily vacant homes or second homes. Between 2001 and 2009, the United States saw a 53 percent growth in occupied housing units nestled in gated communities.

Another related trend contributed to this shooting: our increasingly privatized criminal justice system. The United States is becoming even more enamored with private ownership and decision making around policing, prisons and probation. Private companies champion private “security” services, alongside the private building and managing of prisons.

“Stand Your Ground” or “Shoot First” laws like Florida’s expand the so-called castle doctrine, which permits the use of deadly force for self-defense in one’s home, as long as the homeowner can prove deadly force was reasonable. Thirty-two states now permit expanded rights to self-defense.

In essence, laws nationwide sanction reckless vigilantism in the form of self-defense claims. A bunker mentality is codified by law.

Those reducing this tragedy to racism miss a more accurate and painful picture. Why is a child dead? The rise of “secure,” gated communities, private cops, private roads, private parks, private schools, private playgrounds — private, private, private —exacerbates biased treatment against the young, the colored and the presumably poor.


This post has been edited by Stormiya: Mar 30th 2012, 12:45 PM


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D.J.
post Mar 30th 2012, 3:43 PM
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Aw snap.



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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 4:16 PM
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QUOTE(Stormiya @ Mar 30th 2012, 1:44 PM) *

QUOTE
The perverse, pervasive real-estate speak I heard in these communities champions a bunker mentality. Residents often expressed a fear of crime that was exaggerated beyond the actual criminal threat, as documented by their police department’s statistics.

I prattled on here, but in short, this is so true. People just see minority faces, and assume the worst.

QUOTE
Based on their actions, police officers clearly assumed Mr. Zimmerman was the private property owner and Mr. Martin the dangerous interloper. After all, why did the police treat Mr. Martin like a criminal, instead of Mr. Zimmerman, his assailant? Why was the black corpse tested for drugs and alcohol, but the living perpetrator wasn’t?

Yep.

More to say in next post.

QUOTE(D.J. @ Mar 30th 2012, 4:43 PM) *

Aw snap.



I don't think that was a meltdown, but what she should have said is that yes, sadly I deal with tragic deaths in my district all of the time. But yes, the reason this case is getting much more attention is that there was systematic mishandling by an entity that we're supposed to trust...the police. And yes, that happened because this boy was black.

Call it like it is.

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 30th 2012, 8:33 PM


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 4:27 PM
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This will somehow be Trayvon's fault too:
QUOTE
George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says


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“Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.

“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/g...3#ixzz1qdcNpNHU


But, but, Trayvon liked to smoke weed!!!!1!!!!!!


I like these posts:
QUOTE
This guy was a bouncer eh? And a wannbee cop. Neighborhood watch dude. Then Killed a kid. Seems like he needed to be an authority figure for some reason. Dimestore amature psychology diagnosis: Control freak.

QUOTE
Even though there's elements of race, to me from the beginning this was a guy who wanted to exert some sort of power and show he was a cop, take things in his own hands. He probably had good intentiones watching out for the neighrbourhood. But he wasn't trained for what he wanted it to be and he made poor decision after poor decision that led to the death of this kid. Even with out his friends description, you can see him being the typ to confront someone aggressively and obnoxiously and no one is going to react in a kind and proper manner to that unless you are in fact a cop possibly.

QUOTE
I can't stress enough how reckless Zimmerman's behavior was. Even if he was a licensed, armed security guard and witnessed a crime being committed you're not supposed to really pursue.

Armed security guards also have levels of force to use--there's a reason you never see guards with just a gun (usually a baton and/or pepper spray).

Armed security is there to observe and report and this guy wasn't even at that licensed level.


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 4:35 PM
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QUOTE

Plus again, LOL at a bouncer not even being able to handle a kid like Martin. Where was he a bouncer? Middle school dances?


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 4:57 PM
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Republican Joe Scarborough has been going off on the Trayvon thing.

Here he is on Morning Joe, ranting righteously. I love how he calls out his fellow right-wingers who are trying to smear Trayvon.

Yesterday:



And then today (I guess he didn't get it all quite out yesterday, lol):


lol@Mika examining the video tape and being like "hmmm...there's nothing!!!"

To paraphrase a post I saw, I like how the goalposts keep moving. First he's beaten severely and was in great fear for his life. Now it's "I think I kind of, might of, see some sort of scratch on his head." lmao.gif It's amazing how Team Zimmerman will not face reality.



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Drew
post Mar 30th 2012, 5:01 PM
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QUOTE(D.J. @ Mar 30th 2012, 4:43 PM) *

Aw snap.



I'm going to say something brutally honest here. Watching that clip in isolation, it's very telling because, children get killed everyday, children a lot younger than Trayvon Martin was. But we'll never hear those stories, will we? Why is that? They talk about this everyday on the news, as does Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and others. Why? They aren't noble reasons, I assure you.


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 5:41 PM
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QUOTE(Drew @ Mar 30th 2012, 6:01 PM) *

I'm going to say something brutally honest here. Watching that clip in isolation, it's very telling because, children get killed everyday, children a lot younger than Trayvon Martin was. But we'll never hear those stories, will we? Why is that? They talk about this everyday on the news, as does Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and others. Why? They aren't noble reasons, I assure you.

Uh, why does Natalee Holloway become national news?

This story became national news because the dude was not arrested. There had to be forced pressure to even get the ball rolling.

Why does any certain crime get national attention? I'd really like to know, because a gigantic portion of the missing persons cases that become national news almost always entail a white victim. Why is that? And why aren't people like you, or this CNN reporter, or Fox News, etc., concerned with that?

Why the resentment?

Not attacking you, but I never hear people who say this stuff actually address this.

Of course it's provoking a huge outcry, because like I said, it's the police coverup that really became a huge issue. If this guy had gotten arrested, it'd just be another throwaway story.

What I really despise are people talking about the black community like they have a clue. My favorite is when they pretend that this is all black people care about. No, it's the only time YOU GUYS have actually noticed, because it involved one of your own. There are ALWAYS protests regarding black on black crime. Literally, just like a week ago there was one in Oakland. In my city, there are quite frequently marches against community violence, and meetings and things like that.

The reason why there are such tough laws against crack selling is because BLACK people were the ones complaining about how it was destroying the community. They put pressure on politicians (this is something that unfortunately, a lot of my generation doesn't know about...the original intention of those type of laws were good, I think).

So when people say "why don't black people do this when...", they're showing their own ignorance.

But yeah, sorry, black people won't just sit there and be silent when there's a systematic coverup by those who hold the most power.

As Republican Joe Scarborough said in that first clip I posted, if a big, black, dude shot a white teenager who was 100 pounds less than him, holding skittles and iced tea, he'd be facing death row in Florida right now.

It's such a joke.

But this dude is walking around with a team full of defenders....it's exactly that kind of inequity that's sparking this. And btw, last poll I saw from CNN showed that 70% of Americans think Zimmerman should have been arrested.

So sorry to burst any bubbles, but it's not just black people who are upset about this.

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 30th 2012, 5:44 PM


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 5:57 PM
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Btw, I'm not attacking you, because you're just voicing what I know some people feel, and maybe even some people on this board. I've actually been surprised to see some of the posts in this thread, from posters who I know are more Republican-leaning. That shows you just how far-reaching this tragedy is.

Still, though, I appreciate you at least speaking your mind.

Again, I'll ask, though, why is it ALWAYS always black people who are made to feel like they can't speak out when it comes to mistreatment due to their race, and things like that? No one would give two sh*ts if Muslims were protesting a Muslim getting targeted and killed, or women for speaking out about mistreatment they face for being women, etc.

I could get into a whole psychological discussion, but I really think it boils down to blacks still being seen as less than dirt, and therefore some people cannot even fathom blacks wanting to do the same thing other races and groups do. They can't see why blacks don't see themselves the way they view them, and thus can't understand why they deserve the same right to pride/outrage/whatever.

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 30th 2012, 5:59 PM


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 6:04 PM
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FYI, the mayor of Sanford had to overrule the police and the prosecutor's office to get the 911 tapes released.

More and more cover up.

This is yet another example of why this is sparking more interest than the typical killing. It just calls into question how much stuff like this goes on within the system all the time. We already know we can't trust criminals, but when you can't trust the system that's supposed to bring justice...

Anyway, thanks, Sanford mayor!!!!!!


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Drew
post Mar 30th 2012, 7:29 PM
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QUOTE(Famousgrl @ Mar 30th 2012, 6:41 PM) *

Uh, why does Natalee Holloway become national news?

This story became national news because the dude was not arrested. There had to be forced pressure to even get the ball rolling.

Why does any certain crime get national attention? I'd really like to know, because a gigantic portion of the missing persons cases that become national news almost always entail a white victim. Why is that? And why aren't people like you, or this CNN reporter, or Fox News, etc., concerned with that?

Why the resentment?

Not attacking you, but I never hear people who say this stuff actually address this.

Of course it's provoking a huge outcry, because like I said, it's the police coverup that really became a huge issue. If this guy had gotten arrested, it'd just be another throwaway story.

What I really despise are people talking about the black community like they have a clue. My favorite is when they pretend that this is all black people care about. No, it's the only time YOU GUYS have actually noticed, because it involved one of your own. There are ALWAYS protests regarding black on black crime. Literally, just like a week ago there was one in Oakland. In my city, there are quite frequently marches against community violence, and meetings and things like that.

The reason why there are such tough laws against crack selling is because BLACK people were the ones complaining about how it was destroying the community. They put pressure on politicians (this is something that unfortunately, a lot of my generation doesn't know about...the original intention of those type of laws were good, I think).

So when people say "why don't black people do this when...", they're showing their own ignorance.

But yeah, sorry, black people won't just sit there and be silent when there's a systematic coverup by those who hold the most power.

As Republican Joe Scarborough said in that first clip I posted, if a big, black, dude shot a white teenager who was 100 pounds less than him, holding skittles and iced tea, he'd be facing death row in Florida right now.

It's such a joke.

But this dude is walking around with a team full of defenders....it's exactly that kind of inequity that's sparking this. And btw, last poll I saw from CNN showed that 70% of Americans think Zimmerman should have been arrested.

So sorry to burst any bubbles, but it's not just black people who are upset about this.

I was highly critical in those instances too. When the Casey Anthony trial was going on, I was the first one to jump on folks like Nancy Grace as they simultaneously played judge, jury (and if possible, executioner) before all the facts were out there. It yielded a huge ratings increase for HLN at the time, I get it. But it honestly sickens me. Everything is so polarized and we're so ready to turn on each other, it's incredible.

Shortly after the shooting, I heard people saying it was a white, conservative individual that was the perpetrator. Then it came out, he's actually half Hispanic, a registered Democrat, and tutors underprivileged kids on the weekends. Hello?? Before you jump down my throat, realize that I'm not defending George Zimmerman, but simply chastising the media for not doing their job, but instead jumping to conclusions before an investigations has gone on and the facts have come out.


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Famousgrl
post Mar 30th 2012, 8:16 PM
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QUOTE(Drew @ Mar 30th 2012, 8:29 PM) *

I was highly critical in those instances too. When the Casey Anthony trial was going on, I was the first one to jump on folks like Nancy Grace as they simultaneously played judge, jury (and if possible, executioner) before all the facts were out there. It yielded a huge ratings increase for HLN at the time, I get it. But it honestly sickens me. Everything is so polarized and we're so ready to turn on each other, it's incredible.

Shortly after the shooting, I heard people saying it was a white, conservative individual that was the perpetrator. Then it came out, he's actually half Hispanic, a registered Democrat, and tutors underprivileged kids on the weekends. Hello?? Before you jump down my throat, realize that I'm not defending George Zimmerman, but simply chastising the media for not doing their job, but instead jumping to conclusions before an investigations has gone on and the facts have come out.

This is not the original point you were making. You're deliberately changing it to a new topic. But ok, I'l play.

I have never seen any mainstream media voices refer to Zimmerman as a conservative. You may be able to find that, but I think it's pretty rare, because I've been following this closely and haven't seen it. Regardless of his party affiliation, he's a douche who stereotyped and got away with crap, and the way conservatives rushed to his defense kind of shows that they themselves felt the need to protect him like one of their own, so...

Zimmerman is listed as white on the police report, so it's no surprise that the media would refer to him as white. If an official document states that, I don't know what you want them to do. For all you know, Zimmerman refers to himself as white. lmao@how conservatives are desperately holding on to that half-hispanicness for all it's worth. It doesn't mean that he couldn't have had a certain type of attitude toward Trayvon because Trayvon's black. It's pretty clear that he did, IMO.

Having said that, I still didn't even hear Zimmerman referred to as white by the mainstream media. Again, maybe it's happened, but I feel like I knew about the half-hispanic thing pretty early.

I'm not sure what the media has done, expect present the things that have happened. It kind of sucks for Zimmerman's peeps that it doesn't look good for him...maybe because it's not good for him.

Same for Casey Anthony. She was guilty as sin, but I agree that Nancy Grace is OTT, but that's her shtick with pretty much every case.

I find it interesting that you say "before an investigations has gone on and the facts have come out." That's kind of the whole point. That wasn't going on. What's most telling to me, though, is that you take more issue with this as it pertains to the media. You have nothing to say about the police doing the exact same thing you accuse the media of doing. Why do you find it more important to complain about the media & the public (the black public, to keep it 100% honest), than the police? Shouldn't lack of investigation and the like coming from the police, be far more important? Especially since they're the ones who are supposed to be inherently entrusted with this. Why is the less important thing where your outrage is targeted? It's telling. Again, I'm only using "you" in the general sense, because it's what I'd say to anyone who makes this type of argument (and I know it's quite prevalent amongst some on the right).

As for polarization, you're right. This shouldn't be polarized. It should be a pretty clear cut, collective, outrage, just as Casey Anthony was. Who's doing the polarization? Gee, I wonder. The contrarians who only sympathize with Zimmerman, because....why?

lolz@"tutors underprivileged kids on the weekends." I'm gonna bet anything that this must be a big talking point on Fox. I'm not getting at you, I just soooo can see them selling this line for all its worth, for some reason.

It is too bad that Trayvon will never get a chance to grow up and do the same.

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 30th 2012, 8:22 PM


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post Mar 30th 2012, 8:27 PM
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QUOTE(Famousgrl @ Mar 30th 2012, 6:41 PM) *

So sorry to burst any bubbles, but it's not just black people who are upset about this.


Trust me, you're not alone. There are millions of white people who care just as much. yes.gif The whole situation is sad and ridiculous. I don't know why people still talk/act like the way they are.... It's so incredibly sad. sad.gif Some people need to be educated.


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Drew
post Mar 30th 2012, 9:02 PM
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QUOTE(Famousgrl @ Mar 30th 2012, 9:16 PM) *

This is not the original point you were making. You're deliberately changing it to a new topic. But ok, I'l play.

I have never seen any mainstream media voices refer to Zimmerman as a conservative. You may be able to find that, but I think it's pretty rare, because I've been following this closely and haven't seen it. Regardless of his party affiliation, he's a douche who stereotyped and got away with crap, and the way conservatives rushed to his defense kind of shows that they themselves felt the need to protect him like one of their own, so...

Zimmerman is listed as white on the police report, so it's no surprise that the media would refer to him as white. If an official document states that, I don't know what you want them to do. For all you know, Zimmerman refers to himself as white. lmao@how conservatives are desperately holding on to that half-hispanicness for all it's worth. It doesn't mean that he couldn't have had a certain type of attitude toward Trayvon because Trayvon's black. It's pretty clear that he did, IMO.

Having said that, I still didn't even hear Zimmerman referred to as white by the mainstream media. Again, maybe it's happened, but I feel like I knew about the half-hispanic thing pretty early.

I'm not sure what the media has done, expect present the things that have happened. It kind of sucks for Zimmerman's peeps that it doesn't look good for him...maybe because it's not good for him.

Same for Casey Anthony. She was guilty as sin, but I agree that Nancy Grace is OTT, but that's her shtick with pretty much every case.

I find it interesting that you say "before an investigations has gone on and the facts have come out." That's kind of the whole point. That wasn't going on. What's most telling to me, though, is that you take more issue with this as it pertains to the media. You have nothing to say about the police doing the exact same thing you accuse the media of doing. Why do you find it more important to complain about the media & the public (the black public, to keep it 100% honest), than the police? Shouldn't lack of investigation and the like coming from the police, be far more important? Especially since they're the ones who are supposed to be inherently entrusted with this. Why is the less important thing where your outrage is targeted? It's telling. Again, I'm only using "you" in the general sense, because it's what I'd say to anyone who makes this type of argument (and I know it's quite prevalent amongst some on the right).

As for polarization, you're right. This shouldn't be polarized. It should be a pretty clear cut, collective, outrage, just as Casey Anthony was. Who's doing the polarization? Gee, I wonder. The contrarians who only sympathize with Zimmerman, because....why?

lolz@"tutors underprivileged kids on the weekends." I'm gonna bet anything that this must be a big talking point on Fox. I'm not getting at you, I just soooo can see them selling this line for all its worth, for some reason.

It is too bad that Trayvon will never get a chance to grow up and do the same.

I'm not protecting him! If anything, the evidence is damning that he's guilty. I'm talking about the rush to judgment that seems to occur quite frequently. Do you think the public will stand for the Sanford police deliberately trying to sweep something like this under the rug? Everyone is paying attention now.

The New York Times referred to him as a 'white Hispanic' …what does that even mean? Isn't that a little bit strange?

Honestly, I haven't followed this case as closely as others, so I can't speak to the chronology of events. If this was a deliberate attempt by someone trying to play policeman in their own neighborhood to murder an innocent teenager, no doubt he should be locked away permanently, no mercy. Correct me if I'm wrong (please, because I want to have the facts correct), we know Trayvon was unarmed and Mr. Zimmerman obviously was. We know he was talking to the police, and they explicitly told him to stand down and not pursue someone he found suspicious. At some point, Zimmerman gets out of his car and pursues Trayvon on foot. From there, sources on opposite sides dispute what happened in terms of a struggle.

Btw, the Anthony case might have been a bad comparison. In that instance, I was critical of Nancy Grace and the public because her guilt or innocence wasn't the question. It was whether or not it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury, based on the evidence. That wasn't going to happen, and fortunately, we had a group of jurors that did their civic duty regardless of the media's game.


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post Mar 30th 2012, 9:06 PM
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QUOTE(bumnummies @ Mar 30th 2012, 9:27 PM) *

Trust me, you're not alone. There are millions of white people who care just as much. yes.gif The whole situation is sad and ridiculous. I don't know why people still talk/act like the way they are.... It's so incredibly sad. sad.gif Some people need to be educated.

huggy.gif

Btw, I'm not even someone who thinks that Zimmerman's resisting arrest charge makes him a bad person. It's not even something I focused on much, but the only reason it's worth mentioning is because you know damn well that the pro-Zimmerman side would be talking about it for all its worth if that were Trayvon.

That's the problem with situations like this. For all we know, maybe that police officer was overzealous and on a power trip, and elevated the claims against Zimmerman. I'd bet it happens quite a bit when police are dealing with someone who's being annoying. So I wouldn't say that that alone makes Zimmerman a violent thug or anything. I'm capable of seeing nuance like that, but I feel like the other side would never concede that, if that were Trayvon who had that charge on his record.

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 30th 2012, 10:23 PM


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post Mar 30th 2012, 9:32 PM
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QUOTE(Drew @ Mar 30th 2012, 10:02 PM) *

I'm not protecting him! If anything, the evidence is damning that he's guilty. I'm talking about the rush to judgment that seems to occur quite frequently. Do you think the public will stand for the Sanford police deliberately trying to sweep something like this under the rug? Everyone is paying attention now.

The New York Times referred to him as a 'white Hispanic' …what does that even mean? Isn't that a little bit strange?

At some point, Zimmerman gets out of his car and pursues Trayvon on foot. From there, sources on opposite sides dispute what happened in terms of a struggle.

Btw, the Anthony case might have been a bad comparison. In that instance, I was critical of Nancy Grace and the public because her guilt or innocence wasn't the question. It was whether or not it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury, based on the evidence.

And yet still, the Sanford PD is trying to do so with targeted leaks that only seem to be sided-toward Zimmerman. That's why the media has to be on this. If they weren't, we never would have gotten to hear the other side! And the other side naturally tilts toward Trayvon. That's just too bad for Zimmerman!!!!

QUOTE(Drew @ Mar 30th 2012, 10:02 PM) *

The New York Times referred to him as a 'white Hispanic' …what does that even mean? Isn't that a little bit strange?

It's quite common, this isn't something newly made up by the media for this case. Look at any census form, or even Wikipedia for the way they break down racial demographics by city. There's white hispanic, and nonhispanic white. Hispanics are generally considered white or black hispanics (even amongst themselves), and the vast majority go with white (wonder why).

From Wikipedia on the demographics of the US (taken directly from the census report. They use the same wording):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_...e_note-c2010-42


And here's an explanation of why it is the way it is. Hispanic is not really a race...people forget that!:
QUOTE
"Hispanic or Latino origin" is a self-designation made by 47 million Americans, as of 2008. They have origins in the Spanish-speaking nations of Latin America, chiefly, whereas a small percentage trace their origins to Spain. However, there are tens of thousands from other places, as well: 0.2% of Hispanic and Latino Americans were born in Asia, for example.[31] Like their countries of origin, the group is heterogeneous in various ways, including race and ancestry.

The Census Bureau defines "Hispanic or Latino origin" thus:
“ For Census 2000, American Community Survey: People who identify with the terms "Hispanic" or "Latino" are those who classify themselves in one of the specific Hispanic or Latino categories listed on the Census 2000 or ACS questionnaire - "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," or "Cuban" - as well as those who indicate that they are "other Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino." Origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States. People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any race.[32]

Because this group is not (nor has it ever been) a race, the largest racial minority in the United States are Black Americans, at 13% of the population. The leading country-of-origin for Hispanic Americans is Mexico (30.7 million), followed by Puerto Rico (4.2 million) and Cuba (1.6 million), as of 2008.[33]

The racial composition of Hispanic and Latino Americans is dominated by people who self-identify as white, since they account for 62.4% of the group in the ACS.[7] The second position is occupied by the Hispanics and Latinos of "Some other race", who make up 30.5%. Officially (i.e. per the PEP) the majority is much higher: 91.9% white, there being no "Some other race" in the official estimates.[5] In the official estimates, Black or African American Hispanics are the second-largest group, with 1.9 million, or 4.0% of the whole group. The remaining Hispanics are accounted as follows, first per the PEP: 1.6% American Indian and Alaska Native, 1.5% Two or more races, 0.7% Asian, and 0.03% Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander. Per the ACS: 3.9% Two or more races, 1.9% Black or African American, 1.0% American Indian and Alaska Native, 0.4% Asian, and 0.05% Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_...e_note-c2010-42
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_et...e_note-c2010-29

QUOTE(Drew @ Mar 30th 2012, 10:02 PM) *

At some point, Zimmerman gets out of his car and pursues Trayvon on foot. From there, sources on opposite sides dispute what happened in terms of a struggle.

It doesn't matter, since everything leading up to that should provide Trayvon the right to defend himself. And no, it's not various sources. It's one source besides Zimmerman, and the police were doing everything to ignore or coerce the other sources. And Zimmerman's story already has many proven falsehoods to it, so I don't know why any of it should be believable.

QUOTE(Drew @ Mar 30th 2012, 10:02 PM) *

Btw, the Anthony case might have been a bad comparison. In that instance, I was critical of Nancy Grace and the public because her guilt or innocence wasn't the question. It was whether or not it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury, based on the evidence.

"Reasonable" doubt is the key word, and it's sad that the jury was full of dupes. Hide the body well enough, and let it depreciate, and you'll get away with murder too! Not every murder is gonna have blood all over the place, like in the movies.

But that's a key example of how a defense attorney throwing out red herrings (the father did it...uh, yeah, like Casey would have decided to sit in jail for years and release that story only just THEN...ok), can easily distract dumb juries. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If only little Caylee had been a little bit older, the defense would have been going after Caylee in all kinds of ways too.

Imagine she was a teenager? "She liked taking risks with older men. Maybe one of them killed her!!!!!" Or more likely, "Caylee was violent and aggressive, and poor mommy was just defending herself in an accident."

All you've got to do is throw out some bullsh*t theory, and then just stick to it for all it's worth. Nevermind what's found in the trunk. Dad did it! lmao. wtf. Nevermind the fact that I totally stole the name from another woman and accused her of doing it. I did it for Dad!

lmao, I want to know how on Earth the jury explained that one away. She stole papers from an apartment building to steal someone's name...but she totally didn't do that for her own sake, of course.

There was only one person doing massive lying and covering up during that time, and that was Casey.

Got to hand it to Casey's defense lawyer. He must have been laughing his *ss off with how lucky he got with that jury.

This post has been edited by Famousgrl: Mar 30th 2012, 9:44 PM


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