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> Is there any concrete proof that Jesus actually existed?
katharinekatkat
post Jul 8th 2011, 1:27 PM
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I was born and raised as a catholic but in the past few years, I've made such progress in becoming my own person and believing what I really want to believe. original.gif I now believe that each person has it's own personal relationship with God (each one very unique and sacred) but that "religions" as we know them are very corrupted and defeat the purpose of God Himself. wacko.gif They divide us into categories and seperate human beings from each other instead of joining them together. They are very manipulative and they basically brain-wash you to believe what they want you to believe as to benefit them in someway. thumbdown.gif I mean, how many different sects of Christianity are there? haha.gif It's ridiculous. wacko.gif

This has recently led me to thinking about christianity itself. I'd like to know if there is any solid evidence that Jesus actually ever existed! noexpression.gif

I've been reading up online of a reported "similar" religion to christianity that existed thousands of years before Jesus was born that celebrated December 25th as their Messiah's birthday and claimed that his mother had him while still being a virgin. Something fishy here, huh? shifty.gif

How convenient is it that Jesus resuscitated and that his body was never found? tongue.gif haha.gif



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1201O
post Jul 8th 2011, 1:35 PM
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I believe there are ancient records that prove someone named Jesus did die, crucified during Roman times. There are varies non-religious texts that talk about him. However, that is it. There's no actual proof that he was resurrected. So yes, Jesus did exist, but wether or not he is really the son of God, is up to your belief and faith.


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RWG
post Jul 8th 2011, 2:05 PM
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It's 99% likely that a Jesus Christ of Nazareth lived about 2000 years ago.

Other than that, I'd agree that Christianity has a couple of holes. wink.gif

This post has been edited by RWG: Jul 8th 2011, 2:05 PM


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katharinekatkat
post Jul 8th 2011, 2:46 PM
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So the only proof that he existed is in written form? unsure.gif


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1201O
post Jul 8th 2011, 3:05 PM
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QUOTE(katharinekatkat @ Jul 8th 2011, 3:46 PM) *

So the only proof that he existed is in written form? unsure.gif

Well a lot of what we know of human history (i'm referring from mesopotamia and forwards) does come from written tomes/artifacts.


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bumnummies
post Jul 8th 2011, 4:23 PM
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I think several years back they dug up some remains that they thought to be Jesus ??? LOL.

But here you go too... Jesus is a prophet in the Qur'an as well. flowers.gif


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kamil24
post Jul 8th 2011, 6:02 PM
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Yes, I think that there is proof that Jesus lived 2000 years ago, but there is no "proof" of God, which comes down faith, whether you believe or not (I do).

As for the different sects, I think that is because people interpret things differently, fight with one another, and then separate. Christianity started as one religion 2000 years ago, and over time it has separated into many, just like Christianity originally separated from Judaism. And from what I learned, most religions have a common origin.


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packerfansam
post Jul 9th 2011, 1:08 PM
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Yes, I do believe there is historical proof that Jesus lived. I don't think that just because there are a number of different Christian sects that interpret the Bible differently makes it less likely that Jesus lived. There are a number of different political parties today with their own ideals, it doesn't mean George Washington didn't exist. Plus, it's not just Christianity. As others have pointed out, most major religions in the world acknowledge Jesus in one way or another. Christianity views him as the Son of God, the Messiah and (most sects) one third of the Holy Trinity; Judaism views him as a false messiah (they believe the true Messiah has yet to come); Islam views him as the Messiah and a Messenger of God; Buddhism views him as bodhisattva (someone who lived an enlightened existence); Bahá'í views him as a Manifestation of God. Even Hinuism, in which Jesus is not directly a part of their beliefs, acknowledge that he most likely existed. All of these and more centuries-old religions making reference to the same man by itself is strong evidence.



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Headphones
post Jul 9th 2011, 5:49 PM
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Yep, it's called the Bible. thumbsup.gif


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katharinekatkat
post Jul 11th 2011, 12:36 PM
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Okay so all of these things make sense. flowers.gif It's really sad how religion seperates us from each other and becomes one more reason to "judge" someone. rolleyes.gif It's so funny that God has said NOT to do this yet we do it all the time. I just wish human beings would let God do the judging when He is ready to do so. ermm.gif


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Jul 11th 2011, 7:01 PM
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QUOTE(katharinekatkat @ Jul 11th 2011, 2:36 PM) *
Okay so all of these things make sense. flowers.gif It's really sad how religion seperates us from each other and becomes one more reason to "judge" someone. rolleyes.gif It's so funny that God has said NOT to do this yet we do it all the time. I just wish human beings would let God do the judging when He is ready to do so. ermm.gif


Let me make something very clear: Simply telling someone what the Bible says about something is NOT "judging" them. Believe whatever you like, but that's the honest truth. Christians are SUPPOSED to tell people what the Bible says.

Matthew 5:13-16 (The Message)

13 "Let me tell you why you are here. You're here to be salt-seasoning that brings out the God-flavors of this earth. If you lose your saltiness, how will people taste godliness? You've lost your usefulness and will end up in the garbage.
14-16"Here's another way to put it: You're here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world. God is not a secret to be kept. We're going public with this, as public as a city on a hill. If I make you light-bearers, you don't think I'm going to hide you under a bucket, do you? I'm putting you on a light stand. Now that I've put you there on a hilltop, on a light stand—shine! Keep open house; be generous with your lives. By opening up to others, you'll prompt people to open up with God, this generous Father in heaven.



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1201O
post Jul 11th 2011, 9:13 PM
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QUOTE(*Christy* @ Jul 11th 2011, 8:01 PM) *

Let me make something very clear: Simply telling someone what the Bible says about something is NOT "judging" them. Believe whatever you like, but that's the honest truth. Christians are SUPPOSED to tell people what the Bible says.

Matthew 5:13-16 (The Message)

13 "Let me tell you why you are here. You're here to be salt-seasoning that brings out the God-flavors of this earth. If you lose your saltiness, how will people taste godliness? You've lost your usefulness and will end up in the garbage.
14-16"Here's another way to put it: You're here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world. God is not a secret to be kept. We're going public with this, as public as a city on a hill. If I make you light-bearers, you don't think I'm going to hide you under a bucket, do you? I'm putting you on a light stand. Now that I've put you there on a hilltop, on a light stand—shine! Keep open house; be generous with your lives. By opening up to others, you'll prompt people to open up with God, this generous Father in heaven.

But you have to look at the context. The book of Matthew was written over a thousand years ago, it was a different time period, it no longer applies today. whistling.gif thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by 1201O: Jul 11th 2011, 9:13 PM


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Jul 11th 2011, 9:43 PM
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QUOTE(1201O @ Jul 11th 2011, 11:13 PM) *

But you have to look at the context. The book of Matthew was written over a thousand years ago, it was a different time period, it no longer applies today. whistling.gif thumbsup.gif


I suppose you think that's funny? Context is mainly about why it was written and who it was written for.

The book of Matthew is one of the Gospels. They were written for everyone, everywhere, forever.



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Headphones
post Jul 11th 2011, 10:44 PM
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"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." - Matthew 24:35

If the words of Jesus don't even apply today, then nothing in the Bible applies today.


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1201O
post Jul 11th 2011, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE(*Christy* @ Jul 11th 2011, 10:43 PM) *

I suppose you think that's funny? Context is mainly about why it was written and who it was written for.

The book of Matthew is one of the Gospels. They were written for everyone, everywhere, forever.

Then I suppose this is everyone, everywhere, and forever as well:

QUOTE

But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence. [spoken by Jesus as a parable] (Luke 19:27 NRS)

I thought one of the commandments was "Thou shall not Kill," yet Luke is telling us to slaughter. Geez, no wonder the Crusades happened.

Of course there's other stuff like Matthew telling children to rise up against their parents and siblings and kill them. But I'm not going to continue. Bye. bye1.gif


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Jul 11th 2011, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE(Headphones @ Jul 12th 2011, 12:44 AM) *

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." - Matthew 24:35

If the words of Jesus don't even apply today, then nothing in the Bible applies today.


Thank you for that. "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever." - Isaiah 40:8

Now, I'm going post a link to an excellent piece about Matthew 7:1 and call it a night.

http://pastorericdouglas.wordpress.com/201...st-ye-be-judged

This post has been edited by *Christy*: Jul 11th 2011, 11:07 PM


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Headphones
post Jul 12th 2011, 12:39 AM
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QUOTE(1201O @ Jul 11th 2011, 11:48 PM) *

Then I suppose this is everyone, everywhere, and forever as well:


I thought one of the commandments was "Thou shall not Kill," yet Luke is telling us to slaughter. Geez, no wonder the Crusades happened.

That's why they call it a parable. It wasn't something being directly commanded, but part of the parable as a whole (possibly indicative of an event in the future, depending on how you interpret it).

QUOTE(1201O @ Jul 11th 2011, 11:48 PM) *

Of course there's other stuff like Matthew telling children to rise up against their parents and siblings and kill them. But I'm not going to continue. Bye. IPB Image

I assume you're talking about Matthew 10:21? Context:

16"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues, 18and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak, for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaketh in you. 21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child; and the children shall rise up against their parents and cause them to be put to death. 22And ye shall be hated by all men for My name's sake, but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jesus isn't telling us to kill our families. He's saying that even those closest to us would be willing to betray us (think Judas), for following Him.

QUOTE(*Christy* @ Jul 12th 2011, 12:03 AM) *


Thank you for that. "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever." - Isaiah 40:8

Now, I'm going post a link to an excellent piece about Matthew 7:1 and call it a night.

http://pastorericdouglas.wordpress.com/201...st-ye-be-judged

That article was really insightful, thank you! BTW, thanks for the PM! I was going to reply, but I accidentally deleted it! laughing.gif


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smilefountain
post Jul 15th 2011, 3:28 PM
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No, there is no proof.

http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Scholars seem to think it is likely that someone named Jesus did live around that time. But many people were named Jesus and the biblical Jesus may actually be a composite of several men instead of just one. But there's no concrete proof of the existence of Jesus.


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katharinekatkat
post Jul 16th 2011, 5:52 PM
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QUOTE(*Christy* @ Jul 11th 2011, 8:01 PM) *

Let me make something very clear: Simply telling someone what the Bible says about something is NOT "judging" them. Believe whatever you like, but that's the honest truth. Christians are SUPPOSED to tell people what the Bible says.



Christians are supposed to be the most wonderful people in the world according to Christians. Muslims are the nicest people in the world according to Muslims. So on and so on...

Don't you get it? Religion separates us from each other...which is exactly what God doesn't want. He wants us to unite together and for the world to be as one. By you "telling" other people what the bible says, you are telling them that their faith/beliefs are wrong. Have you ever been preached to by someone from another faith? Fun, huh? wacko.gif You are not going to convince other people that you are right because faith is something that is either brain-washed into you from a very young age (like you seem to be) or is a safety mechanism for people when in need.

By telling other people that you are right and they are wrong, you are only creating a war-zone and it is not helping...instead it is doing the opposite. thumbsup.gif

If you weren't born in your family, you'd probably of another faith and you'd be going along with the flow of that religion instead. flowers.gif Our world is so screwed up it's unreal. wacko.gif

I'm done replying to you. flowers.gif You are too far gone to even have a mature conversation with. Anything I say you simply reply by giving me a quote from the bible, a book thousands of years old. wacko.gif Try defending your arguments without using the bible and see how that goes. haha.gif You can't...because all you know is "the bible is right" and anything else is rubbish to you. You place every ounce of yourself into it...well if you're right you'll go to Heaven...and if you're wrong you will have wasted your entire life believing this crap and living by it.

This post has been edited by katharinekatkat: Jul 16th 2011, 5:59 PM


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1201O
post Jul 16th 2011, 6:45 PM
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QUOTE(smilefountain @ Jul 15th 2011, 4:28 PM) *

No, there is no proof.

http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Scholars seem to think it is likely that someone named Jesus did live around that time. But many people were named Jesus and the biblical Jesus may actually be a composite of several men instead of just one. But there's no concrete proof of the existence of Jesus.

While an interesting read, this site does not address all the evidence there is about Jesus. Second, most historians agree, that while it is up to your personal belief as to wether or not the bible is the word of God, the bible, at least the new testament, does hold some valid historical value. Many of the events and people mentioned in the New Testament are found in various other scrolls, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls (which predate the death of Jesus.) Often times, some of what is in the New Testament is just a variation of other texts/scrolls. That, among a list of other things, is the reason why the vast majority of historians, even the non-religious, believe that is ALMOST certain that Jesus existed. Wether or not he is the son of God is up your beliefs, though.


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